Jackson V Aeg Live Transcripts-june 28th Karen Faye-mj Make-up/hair

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JACKSON V AEG LIVE June 28th 2013

Karen Faye testimony (Michael Jacksons Make-up Hair)

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Judge: counsel, you have anything you need to speak to me about? No? Mr. Panish: just that we're calling... Ms. Faye is coming back. Judge: yes. So she is going to be the first one?

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Mr. Panish: yes.

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Mr. Panish: yes. Ms. Faye is here, and Mr. Putnam was in the middle of his cross-examination, so we're going to resume with that.

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Judge: OK. Ms. Faye, would you come forward? Karen Faye, recalled as a witness by the plaintiffs, was previously sworn and testified as follows Judge: and, Ms. Faye, you understand you're still under oath? A.

yes, I do.

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Judge: very well. All right. You may begin.

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Mr. Putnam: thank you. Cross-examination (resumed) Good morning, Ms. Faye.

A.

Oh, good morning, Mr. Putnam. How are you today?

Q.

Good. How are you?

A.

So far so good. It's nice and cool in here. So we'll see how it goes, huh?

Q.

During the course of the day you might feel a differently, but we'll get to that.

A.

I remember that.

Q.

It's a little better now. We have the fans.

A.

Oh, great.

Q.

A lot has Changed in the seven weeks since you've been here.

A.

Has it been that long?

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Q.

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Q. Seven weeks. Because it's been seven weeks... you were here may 10th... I started to ask you some questions, but there had already been two days of testimony, so what I'm going to try to do is not recover any of that. I'm going to try to ask you if you remember certain things, if I have to, and if you don't, we may have to go back to it. But have you done anything to prepare in the seven weeks? Have you looked... for example, did you read your transcript of what you said at trial? Yes.

Q.

You did? When did you do that?

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A.

A. Just periodically over different times, sir. I can't tell you exactly what dates they were. It's kind of like in between work and stuff when I had a chance to glance over that. How did you get that?

A.

How did I get that? You guys sent me a copy.

Q.

No, I didn't.

A.

You sent... your company or something sent me copies of it. Yeah, you did.

Q.

This trial?

A.

Oh, not the trial. I thought you meant the deposition. I'm sorry. I totally misunderstood you.

Q.

That's OK.

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Q.

Q.

So over the last seven weeks, you went back to look at your deposition testimony?

A.

Yes. Yes, I did.

Q.

And how many days were you deposed for?

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So it's a deposition that I was looking over.

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A.

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A. I think I was deposed with you for four or five days, I think. And then I think I talked to the plaintiffs for, like, I think, one day. And so you had about five or six days of deposition?

A.

That's a pretty good estimate, yes, sir.

Q.

And it was those transcripts you went back to look at in the last seven weeks?

A.

Yeah.

Q.

But you didn't look at what you said in the courtroom over the last seven weeks?

A.

No. I did not look at that.

Q.

Did you go back to look at any exhibits or anything over the last seven weeks?

A.

Oh. My phone's not off. Can I turn that off?

Q.

Of course.

A.

It just whistled at me. (turned off cell phone.) OK. I'm sorry.

Q.

Better now than later.

A.

Can you ask me that question again?

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Q.

Q. Yes, I can. In terms of the last seven weeks, I'm trying to see how... what you did to prepare so I have some sense of how much I have to go through. Did you go back to look at any of the exhibits in the last seven weeks? The exhibits of what was shown in court?

Q.

Yes, ma'am.

A.

No.

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Q. No? So what about meeting with plaintiffs' counsel? Did you meet with them in the last seven weeks or talk on the phone? I briefly met with them today.

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A.

Q. That's all? So we may have to do a little more of what occurred. We'll see. Do you remember where we left off last time?

Q.

OK. We were trying to go chronologically through your relationship with Mr. Jackson.

A.

OK.

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I don't, sir.

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Q. It was June 2005; all right? The criminal trial, you had been there every day, arriving around 3:00 in the morning, washing his hair, prayed, cried. You remember? Yes.

Correct. No. I did speak with him on the phone.

Q.

You did?

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Q. And he got acquitted, and you were in the hotel. That's how you heard about it. You didn't talk to Mr. Jackson, didn't see him again, didn't speak with him, and he left the country. You remember that?

A. He called me a few times, probably about every three or four months. He would call me or send me a present on the holidays or things like that in between that period of time. Q.

That's what we're getting to.

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I was actually... ... I was correcting that.

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A. Oh, I'm sorry. Because you said I didn't have anything... I didn't talk to him between that period of time, and I did, so...

I was still in June 2005.

A.

OK. June. OK.

Q.

So you hear he was acquitted?

A.

Correct.

Q.

You don't talk to him at that time. He leaves the country?

A.

I didn't talk to him that day.

Q.

He leaves the country?

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Q.

Uh-huh.

Q.

And so you believe he left right away; correct?

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A.

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To my knowledge, he left pretty soon after that.

Correct.

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A.

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Q. Right. And you didn't talk to him between the time he was acquitted, while you were there, until the time he left; right?

A.

It didn't upset me, no, sir.

Q.

Why is that?

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Q. And, again, this is June 2005. Now, did that upset you in any way? That you had been there every day helping him, but he gets acquitted, but he doesn't call you or talk to you but just leaves the country?

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A. He had been through a horrible, horrible ordeal, and I was by his side. And to me, whatever he had to do to recover from that was fine. He had said all his thank yous all along the way, you know, and was appreciative of everything that I did when we were together during that time. So I really understood that he wanted to leave, so I didn't feel bad. He needed to be with his family. He needed to spend time with his children. I thought that was far more important. And I... frankly, I just didn't feel that I needed to be thanked or any kind of gratitude towards what I did. So it didn't upset you?

A.

No.

Q.

And he leaves the country. Do you know if he ever returned to Neverland after that?

A.

As far as I know, he never did.

Q.

And did you ever return to Neverland after that?

A.

No.

Q.

And you didn't see him again until April of 2009; correct?

A.

March, April... I think that's about right.

Q.

So when he moved back to Los Angeles in late 2008, you didn't see him then?

A.

Back in April... no. No, sir.

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Q. And when he moved into Carolwood at that time, you didn't go over to Carolwood and see him at the time, correct, in late 2008? No, sir.

Q.

The first time you saw him was April 2009?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And... but he had returned to the states before then. In fact, he returned to the states in 2006; right?

A.

I don't know.

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You don't know?

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Q.

Q.

You said you talked to him every three months; right?

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A. No. I wasn't keeping track of where Michael was, really. I mean, it's, like, I have a life, you know, and he has a life, and my life didn't... doesn't revolve... didn't revolve around him. He was a big part of it, of course, but, like, I have a child, I have a family, I have work. So I wasn't, like... you know, I would read things in the newspaper and stuff, but that's about it. I didn't make an effort to go see him or anything. I mean, he called me, I think, from Las Vegas and said, "we have some projects I want you to be involved in," and stuff. And I said, "great. Just call me when you're ready" kind of a thing.

A. That's an estimate. I couldn't be exact on... you know, I would say about three, four months, you know. Maybe five months went by. So that's just a guesstimate, sir. The last time you were here, you told us you were like a brother and sister; right?

A.

I felt that that's what our relationship was like.

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Q. Now, in these times that he called you from Vegas and asked you if you could work on projects with him, did any of those projects come to be? Did you ever come to work with him during that time period? Well, "This Is It" came up.

Q.

So you did eventually in 2009; correct?

A.

Uh-huh.

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Q. Let's talk about that. So it's 2009. How did you come to learn that the "This Is It" tour was being put together? I saw it on television.

Q.

And whose program did you see?

A.

It was on the news.

Q.

Were you surprised?

A.

No. I can't say I was surprised.

Q.

Why not?

A.

Huh?

Q.

Why not?

A.

Because he told me there were projects coming up, and this, evidently, was one of them.

Q.

So he hadn't told you about it prior to you hearing it on the news; right?

A.

No, sir.

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Yes, sir.

Q.

How soon after the announcement?

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And did you hear from Mr. Jackson sometime after that announcement?

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Q.

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A. I don't remember the... I don't recall the exact amount of time that passed. I would say within two weeks, three weeks, perhaps. So if the announcement was on March 5th, 2009...

A.

March 5th? OK.

Q.

... you think sometime then?

A.

Probably around the middle of the month, I would say.

Q.

So mid March. And tell me about that. How did you hear from him?

A.

Well, the first person to call me was Michael Amir.

Q.

And who did you understand Michael Amir to be?

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A. Well, I didn't know at the time he called me, but he explained that he was Michael Jackson's assistant, and Michael would like to speak to me regarding... he would like to work with me on the "This Is It" tour, and he would like to personally call me. Q. So some of those phone calls that you were receiving in the intervening four years when you were speaking with Mr. Jackson, how did those phone calls come about? A.

He called me directly. It was just him directly on the phone.

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Q. So in the... between 2005 and March 2009, when you heard from Mr. Jackson, you heard from him directly? Yes, sir.

Q.

But this time you heard from Michael Amir Williams?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Did that surprise you?

A.

No.

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Why not?

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Why not?

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Q. Well, you've been hearing from him directly every three months for the four years, and suddenly you get a call from Michael Amir Williams.

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A. Well, Michael explained that Michael's phone that he was calling from would be a blocked number, and so it would... Michael would be calling me directly from

But that's not how it occurred for the prior three years; right?

A.

No.

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Q.

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A. Blocked number, so to be sure to pick it up. So I guess it didn't strike me as weird that a personal assistant would let me know he would be calling, and please pick up a blocked number.

Q. And you said he called you... did he tell you anything else? When Michael Amir called, did he say anything else about the tour, what was happening?

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A. No. He didn't give me too much information, other than Michael would be calling me. He would be calling me from a blocked number, be sure to pick it up, and that it was about working with him on the tour. And did a time come when Mr. Jackson then called you directly?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And how soon thereafter did that happen?

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A. To be very honest, I can't recall, but it was soon thereafter. I don't know if it was that day or the next day. I really don't recall. But he did call directly, then?

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Yes. From a blocked number, sir.

Q.

And what happened in that phone conversation?

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Q.

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A. OK. I was lying in my bed, and a blocked call came in, and I said, "ah, that's probably Michael." it was really happy and light. It was like, "oh, my gosh. I see you're doing a concert," you know. And he goes, "yeah." and... he used to always use the phrase, "work with me, Turkle. Work with me, Turkle." you know, because he's saying, like, "I want to work with you." and, like, when I'm doing his makeup, it was, "work with me, Turkle." he said that to me. "work with me, Turkle." so it was just fun and kind of laughed and chuckled. And I think I said... I mentioned during that conversation I was really excited for him. I said, "I see you're doing a lot of shows." and he said, "yeah." he goes... he said, "I thought I was only going to do 10, but it looks like... I don't know how I woke up, and now I'm doing 50." I said, "well, then, you know, that's a lot." and he goes... he was kind of a little discouraged about the number, and I was a little apprehensive about it, too. But, I mean, we didn't dwell on that whatsoever. You know, he was, like, "yeah, we got to do this." I said, "we got to get your hair together, and we got to start working really fast," you know. He goes, "OK." and that was about it. We were just bantering back and forth because it was nice to hear his voice, of course.

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Q. Now, in those five to six days of deposition transcripts that you reviewed, do you remember ever telling about that part of the conversation before? About the idea that you had talked about the 50 and the 10 shows, and he was concerned?

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A. Well, there was a lot... you know how thick those depositions were? They were, like, this thick (indicating). Do I recall saying that in that particular... I don't recall, sir.

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Q. You don't? Is it possible this is the first time that you've testified under oath that that part of the conversation ever took place?

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Mr. Panish: calls for speculation. Judge: overruled.

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A. sir, I told you. I don't really recall. I know that was a part of one of our conversations. I'm really not sure if it was in that very first conversation I had, sir. Q.

let's talk about the scheduling of shows. So it's March 5th... I'm sorry. Mid March...

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OK, sir.

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Q. 2009. You had this conversation with Mr. Jackson. Do you tell him at that time that you'll go work for him on the tour? Yes.

Q.

So he asked you to work on the tour, and you said, "yes"?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Did he tell you when it was starting?

A.

No, sir.

Q.

Did he tell you where it was going to be located?

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A. I don't know if... I can't recall if he told me. It was all over the news, so it was something that I would have known. Q.

The press conference. Did you see the press conference?

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A. I remember seeing the media "bus" thing, where the media was flying over his bus. I don't think I actually saw the announcement live. I saw it in retrospect, in it being played on the news, and things like that. But I don't think I saw it at the time. I saw the helicopters, you know, and the buses, and all the expectation of Michael going to it, but I think maybe I had to work and couldn't watch the rest of it, so I can't really be sure that I saw it at that time that it was happening. But a time came when you saw it either then or on the news?

A.

Yeah. It was on the news.

Q.

How did you think he looked?

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OK.

Q.

Were you concerned when you saw him? You hadn't seen him in four years. Did he look bad to you?

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A. No. I just thought he had a really bad hairpiece on, sir. But I have to explain that that's what I do, so those are the things that I notice about everybody, is, like, their personal appearance, their hair, their makeup. And,

A bad hairpiece. Otherwise, how did he look to you?

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Q.

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you know, it's just, like, an unconscious thing. I'll go to a restaurant and say, "oh, I wouldn't wear my eye makeup like that." and I just noticed his wig was so big. So that was what I noticed most of all.

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A. You have to... I'm trying to go back to that point when I first saw him, because, like, it was a long time ago. How did I think he looked? The only thing that I can recall is, like, the hairpiece, sir. And I thought his behavior was a little odd. I think he was... but not out of the ordinary. Now, after that, a time came that you actually ended up seeing Mr. Jackson live; right?

A.

Yeah.

Q.

In person? But that didn't happen until April; correct?

A.

I think it was like around the beginning of April...

Mr. Panish: why don't we take a quick break?

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Judge: Juror no. 7, are you OK?

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Q.

Judge: 10 minutes. (the jury exited the courtroom at 10:37 a.m.)

Judge: I don't know what's going on, but 10 minutes. You can step down if you like or...

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Ms Faye: where am I going to go? Mr. Putnam: it's cooler outside.

Judge: the juror is better. (the jury entered the courtroom at 10:47 a.m.) Judge: Juror no. 7, how are you doing? Juror no. 7: I'm OK. Sorry about that.

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Judge: can you make it until lunch? Juror no. 7: yes. I took some painkillers. Judge: OK. So let me know if there's anything else I can do. Juror no. 7: all right.

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Judge: if it's too painful or your brain gets foggy, let me know. We're going to be here for a while... we've been here for a while, and we're going to be here for a while. Half a day doesn't make much difference. Mr. Putnam: may I approach, your honor?

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A. now, during that little break, I kind of recalled something. You asked me if I reviewed anything about the case in between. You remember when I was sick and couldn't make it here? I had... I found my old phone, sir, and I found some texts relating to this... the period of a couple weeks around Michael's death, sir. Q.

By Mr. Putnam: are these texts that... you were deposed in two different cases related to this; right?

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A. Um, I was deposed for Lloyds, and I was deposed at the same time for you... you actually handed me a subpoena at the same time I was there for Lloyds for this case. Q.

And those subpoenas asked you to hand over documents that related to Mr. Jackson's time period; correct?

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Correct.

Q.

As well as texts and phone messages?

A.

Correct.

Q.

But you didn't hand those over to us; right?

A.

I had no idea I still had the phone, sir.

Q.

But since you've testified, you've now found those texts?

A.

When I was sick, sir, I was looking, because I was trying to remember stuff and dates and... yes, sir.

Q.

Did it help you remember stuff now?

A.

It helped me clarify some dates, sir.

Q.

And did you turn those texts over?

A.

I gave them to….

Q.

To whom?

A.

To plaintiffs, sir.

Q.

Did you give them to the people who asked for them in the actual subpoenas that you were given?

A.

No, sir.

Q.

No? So you didn't hand them to them. You found them and gave them over to plaintiffs?

A.

(no audible response.)

Q.

Did we receive those?

A.

I don't know, sir.

Q.

Did you ask them to give them to us?

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Mr. Panish: better now than never. when did I...

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Judge: when did you give them to them? A.

just recently.

Judge: just now?

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Mr. Putnam: I guess we're getting them now.

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By Mr. Putnam: you gave them to them today?

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yeah. I mean, like, today.

Judge: OK. All right. By Mr. Putnam: is that what you're saying? You gave them to them today?

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Yeah. This morning.

Mr. Putnam: we can look at those at the break so I can try to prepare. going forward, ma'am, did you find anything else?

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Do you think this is funny?

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A. Did I find anything else? I mean, I was going through my drawers, sir, so nothing pertaining to this case. I found some kind of sexy things between my boyfriend and I.

A. You asked me, sir, and I told you what I found. But do I think it's funny? I don't think this case, sir, is funny at all. Q. Going back to where we were, ma'am, when did you let plaintiffs' counsel know that you found these texts? I let them know last night, and I gave them to them this morning, sir.

Q.

And when did you find them? When you were sick? How long ago was that?

A.

Couple weeks ago, sir.

Q.

Did you let anybody know you found these a couple weeks ago?

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A. No, sir. I think I told my boyfriend that I found... because I was... you keep asking me things about dates, and I found that... I'm trying to remember. And so those things were trying... I was trying to refresh my memory about things, sir.

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Q. You had a conversation with Mr. Jackson sometime in mid March 2009 about the idea of coming back and working with him and going on tour; correct? Correct.

Q.

And then you agreed to go on tour with him; correct?

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A.

Correct.

Q.

And there was a conversation about how many shows, the 10 versus the 50; correct?

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A. I had a conversation with him. I can't be sure if it was in the very first conversation that I had with him. But there was a conversation regarding waking up, and it was, like, "it started off as 10 shows, and I woke up, and now it's 50." it was pretty lighthearted.

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So a lighthearted conversation about how many shows?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And then you ended up seeing Mr. Jackson for the first time in four years in the beginning of April 2009?

A.

Yes.

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Q.

Q. And before you had seen him, you actually started doing some research about the number of shows, what the schedule was, and the like?

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A. It was soon after the first conversation. I felt that I was going to be a part of this, so I went online, and I saw a schedule. You saw a schedule?

A.

Like the tour dates.

Q.

And so this... this is something you did before you had yet seen Mr. Jackson; correct?

A.

Yes.

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Q. And as a result of seeing that schedule, you were concerned about the number of shows, and how the schedule was created; correct? I was concerned at how close the shows were together, sir.

Q.

And in fact, you reached out to Kenny Ortega as a result of that concern, didn't you?

A.

I reached out to him, and I reached out to Michael.

Q.

And how is it that you knew that Kenny Ortega was involved in the show at that point?

A.

How did I know? I can't really recall how I knew, sir.

Q.

OK.

A.

But I did know because I called him.

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Q. OK. And but at this point in time, you were concerned, because you didn't think Michael would last a week with that kind of schedule; right?

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A. I don't know if that was my exact words, that "he wouldn't last a week." I mean, I know how he... the time he needs to recuperate after a show, and I didn't know if he could continue very long with that schedule because there wasn't enough time to recuperate. I think I might have said something like, "he might make the first week, but it was going to go downhill after that." you know, I felt that the schedule was too difficult for him to maintain. To be... to try to answer your question, I don't remember if I said a week or how I really explained that. Q.

But you did reach out to Kenny Ortega, and you reached out to him because you were concerned?

Yes, sir.

Q.

And you were concerned about Mr. Jackson's ability to actually do the tour; correct?

A.

Well, do the schedule that was on the web site.

Q.

And at this point you hadn't even seen Mr. Jackson; right?

A.

Correct, sir.

Q.

You hadn't seen him in four years?

A.

Correct, sir.

Q.

At this point did you have an understanding that the tour would take place in one location: London?

A.

Yes, sir.

Q.

And you had never been with Mr. Jackson before where he did a residency, had you?

A.

I've been in places where he's been there several weeks, but not a residency.

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Q. And did you understand at this point when you talked to Mr. Ortega that this was going to stay in one location for 50 shows? I'm pretty sure I understood that.

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Q. Did you understand at that point in time that there was going to be a three-and-a-half-month break in the middle? A. I don't know that I knew that at that time. I'm not sure when I realized that. But when I was looking at the schedule and had that conversation with Kenny, I cannot recall if I knew there was going to be a three-month break. You said you went online to look at the schedules...

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Q.

A. I just looked at the first... top, sir. The first, like... I didn't scroll the whole page. I just saw those dates, and that's what I saw.

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Q. So you hadn't seen him in four years, you saw some of the dates, and you called Mr. Ortega and said, "this is a problem"?

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A. I said, "it could possibly be a problem." I didn't say definitively that, you know, that it was going to be a problem. I said, "this should be something we should consider and look at." And you had already agreed you were going to be the hair and makeup person for Mr. Jackson; correct?

A.

Correct.

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Q.

Mr. Putnam: could I show exhibit 13,402? This was already entered. May I approach, your honor? Judge: yes.

A.

this isn't what I saw.

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By Mr. Putnam: give you a hard one

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Q.

Judge: can you pass that one down? oh, to you? I'm sorry.

Judge: thank you. Mr. Panish: you're saying this is on the web site?

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Mr. Putnam: no, I didn't say that.

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A.

Mr. Panish: oh, OK.

I see that.

Q.

So what was it that concerned you?

A.

Well, this is... first, isn't what I saw.

Q.

OK.

A.

OK. What I saw was a list; OK?

Q.

Of just dates?

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Q. so, Ms. Faye, there's been testimony that this was the schedule of shows. I want to show you something. You see, it has... there's never two in a row. Three months of shows, then there's three months off, and then three months again. You see that?

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A. Of dates. And what I saw was, like, at the time was like... there was a date, off, date, date, off. You know, it was closer together than this, sir, what I remember seeing. Because I remember seeing two dates in a row in places.

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Q. I will represent to you that there's testimony that I think there was... five shows were moved from the original schedule... Correct.

Q.

... to the end so that it started slightly later.

A.

OK.

Q.

So you may have seen the schedule... but without any two in a row. You saw two in a row?

A.

I thought I did, sir.

Q.

Do you recall exactly what you told Mr. Ortega?

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A.

Do I remember exactly what I told Mr. Ortega? No, sir, I don't remember exactly what I told him.

Q.

Do you remember generally what you told Mr. Ortega?

A.

Just what I told you just right now.

Q.

All right.

.co

m

A.

so n

A. That I thought that the dates weren't really... I thought Michael would need more time to recuperate. I think they should really look at that and consider doing something that might be a little easier on him. It was in that... it's not exact words. It's to that.

Correct.

ae lJa

A.

ck

Q. OK. I'd like to show you an exhibit that has been entered and that has been testified to extensively. It's exhibit 130-1, and it's a series of e-mails between Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips. You know who they are; right?

Q. As well as Kenny Ortega. And there's reference to a phone conversation in it that supposedly happened with you. And I want to find out if this is the conversation that they're talking about; all right? Mr. Panish: has she seen this before?

Mr. Putnam: I don't know if she's seen this before. Because she's been tweeting about it. But I don't know if she's...

A.

M ich

Mr. Panish: first of all, I object to the comment. sir, I haven't seen any exhibits...

Judge: wait. Hold on. First of all... there's an objection.

am

Mr. Panish: counsel has been objecting to showing e-mails to people not on the e-mail. If he wants to try to refresh her recollection, that's fine, but, I mean, we need some consistency.

Te

Mr. Putnam: and in terms of consistency, I have made those objections, and you've allowed them to go in anyway even if a person wasn't on it. If they could talk about something, they could testify to it. And in fact, this very e-mail, people have been asked about even if they're not on the chain. And I would like to do it with her. Judge: you're saying that a conversation concerning her or with her is on the chain? Mr. Putnam: yes.

w.

Judge: all right. You may.

Mr. Putnam: may I approach, your honor?

ww

Judge: you may. A.

thank you.

m

Judge: but it's in evidence already; right?

.co

Mr. Putnam: yes. Mr. Panish: that's fine, as long as we can do that. A.

so this is from...

so n

Judge: hold it. We haven't looked at it. Give us a chance to look at it. You can read it yourself, but give us a chance to look at it. By Mr. Putnam: so, as I was noting for you, this is a series of e-mails.

A.

OK.

Q.

And you'll see at the bottom, it starts with an e-mail to Mr. Ortega.

A.

From Kenny Ortega...

Q.

To Paul Gongaware...

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

... and John Houghdahl's.

A.

OK.

Q.

And, see, that's on the 25th of March?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And below it goes through... it talks about several conversations. Said: "I received a few calls"...

M ich

ae lJa

ck

Q.

am

Judge: are we going to put this up? Mr. Putnam: yeah. A.

I have it in my hand. I haven't read the whole thing because everybody is talking.

A.

Te

Mr. Putnam: sorry.

go ahead. I'll go on as you go through it.

w.

Q. By Mr. Putnam: just so you know what I'm going to ask, as you get to the bottom of that first page, as it goes on to the second page, it says: "Karen Faye, MJ's personal makeup artist." you see that? And goes on to the next page, talking about a conversation that he says that he had with you.

ww

A. "she was thrilled that we would all be working together again and would make herself available to me to discuss the show." OK. I read the paragraph regarding me. I didn't read anything else. OK. Q.

So you see there, it talks about the idea that on the 25th of March...

Uh-huh.

m

A.

.co

Q. ... says: "Karen Faye called to check in and confirm that MJ had reached out to her regarding the show. She was thrilled that we would all be working together again and would make herself available to me to discuss the show plan at any time. She also mentioned that she read online the tickets were being sold for every other day."

Q.

so n

A. I made... I didn't say anything about tickets. I said I went online, like I said to you, and saw that the shows were very close together, yes. You commented rather heavily with respect to this?

ck

A. It was a concern of mine. I mean, I don't know what you mean by "heavily." I just thought it was something that I should address in the very beginning to alert people, if they want this to be the best success for everybody, that this should be something that they look at, sir. It says: "it's her strong opinion that this is dangerous."

A.

No. I mean, like, this is his words, not mine. This is what he's saying.

Q.

That's why I'm asking you, ma'am.

ae lJa

Q.

A. I didn't say it was dangerous. I said it... I mean, how can it be dangerous at this particular point? That's ridiculous. That's why I was asking.

A.

I said it wasn't the best schedule for Michael to be successful.

Q.

That's why I'm asking, ma'am, because a number of people have been asked...

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

... whether they were aware as of this date...

A.

Uh-huh.

am

M ich

Q.

Te

Q. ... of the fact that it was dangerous and impractical because of this e-mail, so that's why I'm asking you what you said. Mr. Panish: I'm going to object. A.

I didn't write the e-mail, sir.

w.

Mr. Panish: I'm going to object to counsel's characterization of what was said. It misstates testimony and is improper. And his response when I make an objection... it's an improper question to this witness...

ww

Judge: OK.

Mr. Panish: ... representing things like that. Judge: OK. Sustained.

m

Q.

By Mr. Putnam: so you didn't say it was dangerous?

Q.

.co

A. I can't recall saying it was dangerous, sir. I just thought that in order to be successful, they should revisit the schedule. Because I've been on tour with Michael before. OK. And going on, did you say it was "impractical with consideration to MJ's health"?

Q.

so n

A. No. I had no... I mean, this is really weird, because I had no concept of Michael's health at this particular time. I mean, this is, what, like March? Right. You hadn't even seen him yet; right?

Q.

ae lJa

ck

A. No. My concern was just that the schedule, according to other tours that I've been on, that it's difficult, and he needed, you know, recuperate... more recuperation than what I saw on the original web site. I didn't... there's no way I would have said "dangerous" or "impractical" or... I mean, "dangerous"? No. I didn't say... I didn't use those words, sir. So this is not correct?

A. Not how... I mean, the concept that I did call and express my concern and think that Michael... wasn't the best schedule for Michael to be able to maintain to do 50 shows. But not "dangerous" and "impractical" and "a consideration to Michael's health and ability to perform." I had no concept of Michael's ability at this time, so I wouldn't have said that.

M ich

Q. OK. And it then goes on to say: "in the past (10 to 12 years ago) Karen would often speak on his behalf with regard to these kinds of issues." A.

I don't know what he's referring to there.

Q.

You don't?

am

A. I mean, I was always protective of Michael and his well-being. And in the past 10 or 12 years ago, I would speak on his behalf with regards to these kinds of issues. I really don't know what he's referring to exactly, but I was always concerned with Michael's well-being. And when it was... when I saw that there may be a problem or something that could help Michael, I did speak out. But what exactly they're referring to here, I do not know.

Te

Q. OK. You do recall our talking last time, right, about your being asked to not continue on the "history" tour? Say that... just restate the question.

Q.

Absolutely. You remember our talking last time...

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

... about you being asked to not continue on with the "history" tour?

A.

Correct.

ww

w.

A.

Q. And didn't we talk about the idea that some believed it was because of your speaking out on his behalf with regards to these kinds of issues?

Q.

Wasn't it... did we not discuss...

A.

Uh-huh.

m

What's the last part of the question?

.co

A.

so n

Q. ... the idea some thought it was better for you not to continue at that time because of this very fact; that you would speak out on his behalf with regard to these kinds of issues? I had no knowledge of why they didn't bring me along.

Q.

But you did have a conversation with Mr. Ortega at this time; correct?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And it was a concern about the schedule?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you indicated a moment ago that you also reached out to Mr. Jackson...

A.

I did.

Q.

... about this? Why did you reach out to Mr. Jackson about this?

ae lJa

ck

A.

M ich

A. Because I think that he didn't know how the schedule was; that I said it would be really smart... that he should go and look at the schedule and see, you know, how it's scheduled. And if... how he feels about it, and if he was feeling uncomfortable about it, he should say something about it. OK.

A.

And his response was, "that's funny. My mother said the same thing."

Q.

Now...

A.

But he had not, I think, seen the structure.

am

Q.

Te

Q. So you think that at this point in time in March, that Mr. Jackson was unaware of what his schedule might be in London?

w.

A. Well, I don't... by the conversation I had with him, he didn't seem like he knew, like, how many days, and how it was structured; that he just had to do 50 dates. And I don't think he was... he didn't seem to be aware... when I told him that, "have you seen the schedule? You should see it." and he goes, "no, I haven't." I just wanted him to make sure that he knew how it was scheduled, to see if he was comfortable with it. And he said... his response was, "my mother told me the same thing." so...

ww

Q. Is it true that you reached out to Mr. Jackson because you believed that he was the one who was responsible for having to do the shows? A.

Huh?

Just what I said.

A.

What? Did I reach out to Michael?

Q.

Mr. Jackson, uh-huh.

A.

Because he was the main performer, sir.

Q.

Uh-huh. And he would also be the one responsible if he couldn't do the shows; correct?

A.

Correct. It would be his responsibility, sir.

so n

.co

m

Q.

A.

ck

Q. And isn't that the reason you reached out to him, because you knew it would be him who was responsible if he couldn't do the shows? Say that one more time. Would it...

ae lJa

Q. Did you reach out to him because you believed he was the person who was going to be responsible if he couldn't do these shows? A.

It would come down on him, sir, because he was the star.

Q.

I understand that. My question is: is that the reason you reached out to him?

M ich

A. Yeah. I think so. I mean, it seems logical, with your statement, that if he couldn't do the shows, and he could not make a show, or if he got tired, that... you know, he's the performer. It's his name up there. Q. And so you wanted to make sure that he understood what the schedule was and your concern that that might be difficult for him? A.

Yes. I was concerned, sir.

A.

Uh-huh.

am

Q. Now, how we got off on this is, we were talking about, you said you had this conversation at the time when you spoke with Mr. Jackson in March of 2009 about the scheduling, remember, and we were talking about your first contact?

Te

Q. And a time came after this, after you spoke with Mr. Ortega on the 25th of March, where you actually saw Mr. Jackson; correct? Correct.

Q.

And that was the beginning of April. Where did you see him?

w.

A.

At Carolwood.

Q.

And did you go by yourself?

ww

A.

A.

No, sir.

Q.

Who did you go with?

m

Q.

Who is he?

A.

He is my wig maker.

Q.

And you thought some new wigs might be in order?

A.

Some what?

Q.

Some new wigs might be in order?

A.

Sir, we needed to prepare for the show, sir.

.co

Stuart Artingstall.

ck

so n

A.

ae lJa

Q. And then a time came, also, where, after that... after you were meeting with Mr. Jackson, you ultimately started negotiating for a contract with AEG correct? A.

Yes.

Q.

And ultimately you entered into a contract with AEG is that right?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you weren't paid by AEG Before you signed that contract, were you?

M ich

A. Um, no, sir. Well... no. No, I personally was not paid. I needed to get some funds to start creating the hairpieces for Michael, sir, and I was informed by Evvy to contact Dr. Tohme. Q. So you needed some funds in advance before you had contracted with AEG, and you talked to Evvy. Who is Evvy? Evvy was Michael's assistant that resides here, sir. That resides in Los Angeles, sir.

Q.

Do you know her whole name?

A.

Evvy Tavasci.

am

A.

Te

Q. Tavasci. So you reached out to Ms. Tavasci to find out who to speak to about getting funds, and she told you to go speak to who, Dr. Tohme? Yes.

Q.

And did you know Ms. Tavasci because she had worked for Mr. Jackson previously?

w.

A.

Yes, sir.

Q.

Approximately how long?

ww

A.

A.

A long time.

Q.

So she was someone you had spoken to before?

m

Yes, sir.

Q.

And that's why you spoke to her?

A.

Yes.

Q.

Did you hear about Dr. Tohme before?

A.

No.

Q.

Did you actually reach out to Dr. Tohme and seek funds?

A.

Yes. She gave me his phone number, and I called and left a message. He did not pick up, sir.

Q.

And was this before or after you first saw Mr. Jackson in April of 2009? Do you know?

A.

I can't really recall, sir.

ae lJa

ck

so n

.co

A.

Q. OK. Now, before you started negotiating this contract, do you remember saying... I've asked you if you had any concerns when you first spoke to Mr. Jackson. And do you recall at all telling me that, yes, you had a concern about someone named Raymone Bain and Grace Rwaramba? A.

Yes.

A.

M ich

Q. So when one of your first concerns in that conversation... I'm sorry. When you first thought of that conversation was after Michael Amir Williams or after you spoke to Michael himself? OK. I'm confused, OK? Try to make it really clear here so I can answer your question.

A.

Correct.

am

Q. No, please. That was my fault. Terrible question. Last time, I said: "Did you have any concerns at the time when Michael first contacted you about the concert tours?" and you said: "Yes, I did. I had a problem with Raymone Bain and Grace Rwaramba"...

Q. ... "because I knew they didn't like me and pretty much responsible for me not being around for four years." you remember saying that? Correct.

Q.

And why did you say that, ma'am?

A.

Because that was my understanding at that time, sir.

w.

Te

A.

And what was your understanding?

A.

That they didn't like me.

ww

Q.

Q.

And who was Ms. Bain?

A.

She was... at first she was brought in as a publicist, sir.

m

Had you ever met her?

A.

Have I met her? Yes, I've met her.

Q.

Had you met her at that time?

A.

At what time?

Q.

At the time of that conversation in March of 2009.

A.

Oh, yes. I've known her for a while, sir.

Q.

All right. And what was the basis of your belief that she didn't like you?

ck

so n

.co

Q.

ae lJa

A. Probably kind of during the trial. You know, they were... I'm just trying to think of details here to... you know, well, Grace kind of goes back quite a while. I felt that she... you know, I really, really... I really, really loved Grace, you know, when I first met her. She was really... I adored her. I have to say that. And I met her way back when she worked at Michael's office, and I was really happy when Michael used her as the nanny. But I just felt that as her responsibilities grew, that she kind of stood in the way of... or she always appeared to, like, try to keep me away from Michael, in a sense. Keep it at a distance. And then Raymone came later, sir. Q. Did the time ever come with Ms. Rwaramba where you suspected that she was involved with providing Mr. Jackson with drugs? I thought it was a possibility.

Q.

And why did you think it was possibility, ma'am?

A.

Because it seemed like Michael seemed to have issues sometimes when she was around.

Q.

I'm sorry. I didn't quite... he had issues when?

M ich

A.

am

A. When... I felt there were issues when she was around sometimes, sir, and... let's see. I'm just trying to really think. Trying to answer your question properly. I can't really think... what was the question? Just kind of remind me of the question again.

A.

Te

Q. The question was... and I can follow up. I'll tell what you the question was. I asked you if a time ever came when you suspected that Ms. Rwaramba was somehow involved with providing Mr. Jackson with drugs. And if you answer that question, I'm going to ask a follow-up, were there times you felt that way? Was one of those times during the 2005 criminal trial? I think it was Randy Jackson who asked Grace to leave Neverland, sir.

w.

Mr. Panish: I'm going to object. It's all hearsay, what other people are saying, and speculation.

ww

Judge: yeah. I don't think he intended to elicit hearsay, but she's saying hearsay. And I'll strike that portion of the answer. Mr. Panish: and also speculation, but go ahead. And relevance, too. Judge: No. Overruled on relevance. Why don't you re-ask the question?

m

Mr. Putnam: I will.

.co

Judge: I don't think you were intending to elicit hearsay, but it came out that way. So I'll strike that portion of the answer. You can re-ask the question.

so n

Q. the question I'm asking, ma'am, is, I asked if you suspected at any point that Ms. Rwaramba was in any way involved with perhaps providing Mr. Jackson drugs? And you said there were times when she was around. And I followed up with, was one of those times during the criminal trial in 2005? Um, I have no proof of anything, sir. It was just things that I was told and things that happened, sir.

Q.

What were the things that happened?

A.

Michael seemed to have a more difficult time during the trial when Grace was brought back to Neverland.

Q.

So there was a time at the beginning of the trial when Ms. Rwaramba wasn't at Neverland; correct?

A.

She was at the hotel where I was staying, sir.

Q.

And then did a time come when she moved into Neverland during the trial?

A.

I only heard.

Q.

Did you have an understanding that she was there?

ae lJa

ck

A.

M ich

Mr. Panish: I'm going to object to the understanding to be based on hearsay solely. Judge: it appears it's going to end up that way. Mr. Putnam: OK. Judge: so, sustained.

When you said that she came back, was she not at the criminal trial at some point?

am

Q.

Judge: you mean attending the criminal trial?

Te

Mr. Putnam: well, she said that things changed when Grace Rwaramba came back. Judge: to Neverland. to Neverland.

Q.

to Neverland. So it wasn't to the trial, it was to Neverland?

A.

Yes.

Q.

OK. And what Changed when she came back?

ww

w.

A.

A. Well, I just noticed that Michael started having a lot of back pain, and it kind of coincided with him, with the symptoms of losing a lot of weight, and the "pajama day," and all that.

m

Q.

And remind us, if you could. What was the "pajama day"?

so n

.co

A. Well, it was the day that Michael went to the hospital because something happened to his back, and he was taken to the hospital. And they gave him, I think, some sort of painkillers for his back. And then as soon as he was in the hospital and had the painkillers, the judge was informing Michael that he had to go to the courthouse and be on time, or he would go to jail. And Michael had left Neverland to go... he was in his pajamas when he went to the hospital. I was still left at Neverland. I grabbed some makeup things, and Michael Bush got his clothes, and we went to the hospital, but the judge was demanding that Michael be... that he didn't have time to get ready. And we were rushed to the courthouse, and Michael was still in his pajamas. And I was in a follow-up car with Michael Bush with his clothes and hair and makeup stuff, but we didn't have any time to make him look better from that point on. They scooted him in. They let him go, because they were going to throw him in jail if he didn't get there on time.

ck

Q. So that's an example of the type of incident you were talking about you had concerns about after Ms. Rwaramba came back?

ae lJa

A. I have to say that a lot of my information kind of came through Taunya and... you know, stuff about their concerns. Well, just remind us. Is this Taunya Zilkie?

A.

Yes.

Q.

And Taunya Zilkie is your agent, your manager?

A.

At the time, she was not.

Q.

At the time you were working with her on the web site with Randy Jackson...

A.

Right.

Q.

... about Mr. Jackson?

A.

Correct.

Q.

About Mr. Michael Jackson? And she later became your manager? She managed your business affairs?

A.

She took care of my business affairs. Didn't really manage my career.

Q.

I want to ask you that because that's where we are going.

A.

OK.

Q.

So a time came you negotiated a contract with

w.

Te

am

M ich

Q.

.e.g. correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And, again, I'd like to show you that contract.

ww

A.

m

Mr. Putnam: it is already in, and it's exhibit 6818. May I approach, your honor?

A.

.co

Judge: yes, you may. are these both the same thing?

A.

I'm sorry.

Mr. Putnam: that's my fault. I should have told you that. I apologize.

so n

Judge: oh, one's mine.

I thought he was just being generous.

Q.

By Mr. Putnam: you recognize this, ma'am ?

A.

I mean, without reading it word for word, it appears to be my contract.

Q.

And what I'm going to try to do is go through it and ask you about certain portions, if I may.

A.

All right.

Q.

So this is... as you see, it's a multi-page document. Ultimately, it's 13 pages.

A.

Yes.

ae lJa

ck

A.

M ich

Q. And I'm going to start at the very beginning, and the first paragraph, if I may. And it says: "The agreement dated as of may 5th, 2009, by and between AEG Live productions, inc., a Delaware Corporation," and then in parentheses, it says, "(company)." and the reason I'm going through this, ma'am, is because later those definitions will be used, so I want to try to do it in the beginning. You'll probably have to revisit that because I'm horrible. I don't understand legalese all that well.

Q.

OK. And then it says: "and Zilk, Inc., a California Corporation (lender)."

A.

Right.

Q.

What is "Zilk, Inc."?

A.

Zilk, inc. Was Taunya.

Q.

And by that you mean Ms. Zilkie, the one who was managing the business?

A.

Correct.

w.

Te

am

A.

And you say she "was" because she isn't any longer?

A.

Correct.

ww

Q.

Q. You said last time that you believed she and Mr. Randy Jackson had been in a long-time special relationship?

Yes.

m

A.

.co

Q. And then after that... and then it says: "f/s/o"... which I believe is "for the services of"... "Karen Faye Heinze, p/k/a Karen Faye, a hair and makeup artist"... I like "expert."

Q.

We'll get there. And it says there, "(expert)." in this contract you were referred to as the expert?

A.

OK.

Q.

The lender is your manager...

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

... and Zilk, Inc. And then the company is AEG Live productions. You see that?

A.

The... yes.

Q.

Now, did you understand that you were not an employee of AEG, but rather...

ck

but rather an employee of Zilk, Inc.?

ae lJa

Mr. Panish: finish your question. Q.

so n

A.

Judge: overruled.

M ich

Mr. Panish: object. Calls for a legal conclusion as to her understanding of her employment status.

you're going to have to say that question again, there was so much going on.

Q.

let me help you, make it easier.

A.

OK.

Q.

I will show you paragraph 3.3.

A.

OK. 3.3?

Q.

Yes, ma'am.

A.

So, like, at the bottom of page 3?

Q.

Yes, it is.

w.

Te

am

A.

A.

OK.

ww

Q. And while you're looking at it, I just wanted to note, the agreement was may 5th, 2009. So it was about two months... A.

Oh, it's up here, too. Go ahead.

I don't know which one you prefer to read.

n.c om

Q.

A. Yes. I haven't made that decision yet, but this one is kind of cut off. Can you move it over that way? Whoever is doing it... then I prefer the one I can see. Judge: it's cut off on this screen. I don't want her to press any buttons. A.

there's enough up there. I can see it.

lJa ck so

Mr. Putnam: can she approach, your honor? Judge: yes.

Q. By Mr. Putnam: it's dated may 5th, 2009, so about two months after the announcement on March 5th, 2009. A.

OK. I'm sorry. I don't know what you were saying. All right.

Q. All right. So 3.3 says: "the expert is specifically deemed to be an employee of lender." and you saw, again, lender was Zilk, Inc.? Gotcha.

Q.

And not of the company, which is AEG Live productions?

A.

OK.

Q.

"the performance of expert's"... that's you; correct?

A.

Yes.

Q.

"services hereunder is in the capacity of as an independent contractor." you see that?

A.

I do.

Q.

And if you go to the bottom right of the page...

A.

Yes.

Q.

You'll see that there are initials?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Are those your initials?

w.

Te a

mM

ich

ae

A.

No.

Q.

Whose initials are they?

ww

A.

A.

It looks like Taunya and Paul Gongaware.

Q.

Paul Gongaware?

n.c om

Correct.

Q.

So did you have Ms. Zilkie sign this on your behalf?

A.

If I had her... I guess you could say that she did that, yes.

Q.

And then, if you go to page 11 of the agreement on the bottom, is that your signature there?

A.

Wait a minute.

Q.

Sorry

A.

Yes.

lJa ck so

A.

Q. OK. So did you have an understanding as to whether you were an employee of AEG Live productions, Inc.? Say that again? Did I...

Q.

Have an understanding...

A.

Yes.

Q.

... as to whether you were an employee of AEG Live productions, Inc.?

ae

A.

ich

A. Did I have an understanding? Like, I really don't... that's kind of... did I have an understanding if I was... I worked for "This Is It" and the production of "This Is It". that was my understanding.

mM

Q. OK. Now, at the time of this agreement, do you remember having certain requests that you made in reference to your employment? And I'll help you. If you go a little further down... A.

To where?

Q.

I'm looking. I'm sorry. Page 12. If you look, it says, "This Is It"?

A.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. OK. 12. OK. Gotcha. All right. I'm on the page.

Te a

Q. At the top, you see that it says there, "This Is It" contractual requests, Karen Faye re Mr. Michael Jackson's personal makeup and hair artist/only." you see that? Yes.

Q.

And you see, there are a number of enumerated requests that follow, 14 in total, over two pages?

w.

A.

OK.

Q.

Do you understand what these are?

ww

A.

A.

I think they were things that I kind of needed to do my job, sir.

Q.

And so these are the specifics that you needed, and, thus, they were your requests?

I think so. I haven't read them. I need to read over them. It's been a long time.

Q.

Let's go over a couple of them.

A.

OK, sir.

n.c om

A.

Q. Start with the first one. It says: "access to Mr. Jackson 24 hours, seven days a week, per his request." what does that mean? And most importantly, I want to ask about "per his request." what's that?

lJa ck so

A. That means that I needed to have access to him because of his hair; OK? There were... like, because we had to work at times that we were not performing, and the process of his hair took a long time. So I need to be... this is there because I needed to be able to get to him. I don't know where they were going to put me, or where they were going to put him. Because sometimes we could have been in different cities. And I wanted to make sure that I could get to him when he needed me. And so when it says, "per his request," what does that mean? Was this at his request?

A.

To be able to do his hair, yes.

Q.

And without going into all the details...

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

... about... this was... and I told you last time I didn't want all the details at this point.

A.

OK.

Q.

But it was a very involved process, was it not, doing his hair?

A.

Yes, sir.

mM

ich

ae

Q.

Q. And that's why, when it says, "estimated five hours, but could be more or less," you're talking about five hours... the reason it's so long we're talking about is because of how much had to be done? Correct.

Q.

And, again, not going into details. There were certain things that had to be clipped into the scalp?

A.

More extensive than that, but, yes.

Te a

A.

Q. I was trying to not give all the details. Now, you go on, then, to the next one. Let's go to 2. And it's... well, I should ask you, so this was a request that you were specifically making, correct, to do your job? Yes.

Q.

No. 1, the one we just did?

A.

Yes, sir.

ww

w.

A.

n.c om

Q. No. 2. It says: "for optimum work conditions for Mr. Jackson, I request a separate and private room close to Michael Jackson's residence equipped with a hydraulic chair in which the back reclines, a shampoo bowl," goes on from there. Was this also a specific request you were making so you could do your job? A. Yeah. Michael liked privacy when he did this, so this would be the ultimate. I mean, I have done things in bathrooms and everything, but this would be under... you know, doing this, this would be the most comfortable condition to do this job. And when you said, "Mr. Jackson liked privacy," what do you mean?

A.

When you do somebody's hair, sir, there's a lot involved, and he doesn't want people seeing.

Q.

And next, it goes to... let's go to 4. There's

A.

UK cell phone. Goes on from there about having it. Was that another thing you had requested?

A.

Yes, sir.

lJa ck so

Q.

Q. No. 5 talks about: "the company will pay for all grooming needs for Mr. Jackson. There will be items of importance that will have to be paid in full in order for the items to be secure." Correct.

Q.

What's that about?

A.

His wigs, sir.

Q.

And, again, without going into lots of details, but were these inexpensive items, these wigs?

A.

No, sir.

Q.

Were they very expensive items?

mM

ich

ae

A.

A. It depends... saying, "very expensive," it depends on what your viewpoint is for wigs, sir. Some people think $300 is a lot, and some people think normal is 5,000. It depends on the quality. So, you know... How much did these cost?

A.

To the best of my recollection, I think I got Stuart down to, I think, $3,500 a wig. I think.

Q.

And how many wigs were there?

Te a

Q.

ww

w.

A. Well, I needed approximately... at least five to even leave for London, sir. And then... and, I mean, it takes a long time to make them, because they're what they call "ventilated." it's each and every hair is basically crocheted into a netting, and it's hair by hair. And it takes a long time to do because they're really nice, and it had to look real. And that's the only way a hairpiece looks real, if it's actually growing out of the scalp. So they ventilate it. It takes a long time and had to be a good quality of hair. So it takes a long time. So that's why I really needed to get started really soon on getting these done, because I needed at least five before I left. And there would be an ongoing... and, like, I don't know the durability, you know, of what Michael did, how much he sweat, and everything, how many I was going to need. And I needed to have a reserve. If something happened to it at the last minute, I had to be able to remove it and put another one on immediately.

Is that why you sought the monies in advance from Dr. Tohme?

A.

Yes, sir.

n.c om

Q.

Q. And at the time when you went to meet with Mr. Jackson in early April of 2009, did he have any of these kinds of high quality wigs at that time, or did you have to make them all new? A. He had only one on his head, that big kind of heavy one that would never even stay on his head during a performance. So I had to get started so he even had one to work with for rehearsals.

And did you have a lot of time to get this done when you started in April, or little time, in your opinion?

A.

I was concerned that if I didn't get started right away, I wouldn't have enough time to get it done.

lJa ck so

Q.

Q. Let's go to the next one. No. 6. It says: "Mr. Jackson requires that his personal needs and supplies remain completely private and confidential. I will hold all of Mr. Jackson's itemized receipts. I will only release them upon his request. I will submit my personal invoices with descriptions of 'personal services' and 'products' unless advised otherwise by Mr. Jackson." what did that mean?

ae

A. It meant that Michael didn't want people to know he wore a wig. And I knew when you hand in receipts, people want to know what they are for, and I wanted to make sure I could keep Michael's personal... this as private as I possibly could. So that was my request; that unless Michael OKs letting everybody know what it is, I wanted it to be as private for him as possible. Now, last time when you were here, you had testified about a Dr. Metzger?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And could you remind us who Dr. Metzger is?

A.

He's a doctor.

Q.

Did you have an understanding as to his relationship with Mr. Jackson?

A.

He had been a doctor that had taken care of Michael for a very long period of time in his life.

mM

ich

Q.

Te a

Q. And do you remember testifying that you had talked to Dr. Metzger and had gotten him to prescribe some medications for Mr. Jackson, and he had done so in your name? Cosmetic.

Q.

That was propecia and latisse?

A.

Yes.

w.

A.

Q. Were those also the types of things you were talking about in terms of not wanting to put in that Mr. Jackson had a prescription for latisse or a prescription for propecia?

ww

A. Yeah. Things that were private, that's what this was for. I think when I wrote it, I was more concerned for his hair and not that. But, yes, that would come under that category.

n.c om

Q. On that testimony about asking Dr. Metzger for these prescriptions, you also mentioned a Dr. Arnold Klein. Did you ever ask Dr. Arnold Klein for any prescriptions for Mr. Jackson?

lJa ck so

A. I was inquiring... I think I explained to you before about Botox, because Botox inhibits sweating. And I was thinking that perhaps Michael could have Botox injections in his... on his scalp to stop the sweating. It would help the wig and the adhesives of the wig during his performance to stay in place, would stay more secure without sweat coming from underneath. And I knew it was possible to do under your arms. I had read that. So I inquired with Dr. Metzger if it would work that way. And he said, "yeah, it would probably react in the same way," he goes, "but, you know, I don't... you'd have to go to Dr. Klein for that, because I don't know, you know, what Michael's... I don't know, you know, other things he's doing, like, to give an injection of Botox for." so I called Dr. Klein. I left a message, and I never got a return call at this particular time, regarding this. But I think that's the only prescription, if that's called a prescription, a Botox injection would be prescription or not. But I went in... Michael also used creams that Dr. Klein makes, and I went into the office. And Dr. Klein also had a supply of latisse. And he said, "here, you can just take this for Michael, also." and sunscreen. Q.

And sunscreen?

A.

And eye drops.

Q.

And, again, those prescriptions were all in your name, not in Mr. Jackson's name; correct?

ich

ae

A. Um, the ones from Dr. Metzger, the latisse and the propecia was. I asked him specifically if he would do that for me because... and I wanted him to do it at a pharmacy near me so I could take them to Michael. And especially the latisse to start using, because it takes about six weeks to start, and so I wanted to start Michael on that right away. And so he put the prescription in my name for the latisse and the propecia. The propecia also is... it rejuvenates hair on men's scalps. And so I needed as much healthy hair as possible on his scalp in order to secure his hairpieces. Q. Other than that time with Dr. Metzger, or times when you were getting propecia and the latisse, are you aware of any other time when Dr. Metzger prescribed medications of any sort for Mr. Jackson in your name? No, sir.

Q.

Was there any other time where you asked him to do so?

mM

A.

A. OK. I've got to think back. Is there any other time? That's a long time to think back. I'd have to say, you know, without staying here for, like, about an hour and a half trying to figure it out, that I really don't recall.

Te a

Q. And what about with Dr. Arnold Klein? Was there ever a time that you're aware of where Dr. Arnold Klein had prescriptions for Mr. Jackson done in your name?

w.

A. I would pick up things for Michael at the pharmacy, but... I would pick up skin creams, for his propecia. I don't know if they were put in my name. And I know with the eye drops, I would sometimes pick them up for Michael. And I cannot recall, for the life of me, whether they were in my name or not. I know Evvy would send me some creams to take to Michael when I was going to wherever he was in the world. She was, "Oh, Michael needs this. Will you take this cream?" So his...

ww

Q. A.

And I can't recall, for the life of me, whether my name was on it or not.

Q.

That's all I'm asking, if you remember.

n.c om

A.

I can't.

Q. So you don't know whether prescriptions were put in your name for Mr. Jackson? You just don't remember? A.

Right. I don't recall if they were in my name. I'm telling you the things that I did pick up for him.

lJa ck so

Q. Right. And in terms of these pickups... let me make sure I understand. So there were times when Mr. Jackson was on tour where Ms.... I'll mess up her name, I'm sorry, Evvy Tavasci? A.

Tavasci.

Q.

She would contact you and ask you to bring stuff to Mr. Jackson?

A.

I mean, it was... I mean, not... I mean, it was very rare. Rarely. Very rarely. But it was his skin cream.

Q.

But that happened on occasion, then?

A. Three or four times in 27 years. Well, she wasn't there 27 years, but... yeah, it was... they were awkward because they were really big tubs. OK. And did you agree and bring those to Mr. Jackson?

A.

Yeah.

A.

Few times, yeah.

Q.

Going back to your contract, which is where we were, do you recall how you were paid?

A.

I think there was... it was put into Taunya Zilkie's account, our business account.

mM

ich

ae

Q.

Q. And do you recall being paid a different amount while you were in Los Angeles than what you were going to be paid in London?

Te a

A. Correct. I think it was about half. That was the usual procedure: when you're on tour, that the rehearsal rate is usually about half... well, it's always been with me. I don't know. I never reviewed other people's contracts. But during the preparation, it was about half the rate. And then as soon as you got on tour, you would get your full rate. Q. And is it fair to say that the amount of monies that you would be receiving were a large portion of your income? When you're... yes.

w.

A. Q.

And you said it was paid to Ms. Zilkie. Did she then take a portion of those monies?

ww

A. I think I was giving her something to take care of all of my business and pay bills while I was... and I can't recall how much it was. Q.

OK. Was it a percentage or a flat fee?

Q.

And she doesn't work for you anymore; right?

A.

No.

n.c om

A. I can't recall. It could have been one or the other. I mean, I know I was... I remember negotiating with her something that was fair, because she wouldn't be doing a whole lot.

Q. So, ultimately, a time did come, then, where you signed this agreement; correct? I showed you that signature. This particular piece? This particular thing I don't think I signed, but this one.

Q.

When you say, "this particular one"...

A.

Oh, I don't see... those weren't my initials.

Q.

When you say, "this particular thing," you're talking about the list of requests?

A.

The what? What particular thing?

Q.

You just said, "I didn't sign this particular thing."

A.

Correct.

Q.

Are you talking about the list of requests?

A.

I don't see that my signature is on it. That's all I'm saying.

Q.

Those were your requests?

A.

These were my working requests.

mM

ich

ae

lJa ck so

A.

Q. Let me ask you a question. You talked about who you worked for. Did... did Mr. Gongaware ever tell you how to perform your services to Mr. Jackson? No.

Q.

Would Mr. Randy Phillips?

A.

He would not tell me how to do makeup or hair, sir, no.

Q.

And what about Kenny Ortega?

Te a

A.

w.

A. He would not tell me how to do makeup or hair, sir. He did require me to put things in Michael's ears. He demanded it. He demanded Michael take off his sunglasses. They did give me orders, sir, but not pertaining to his makeup and hair. Who did you answer to about your makeup and hair?

ww

Q. A.

Michael, sir.

Q.

And did you consider him to be the person who hired you?

n.c om

He requested me, sir.

Q.

And how do you know he requested you?

A.

He called me and asked me.

Q.

OK. So the request was made of you. When you said he requested you, he requested that you...

A.

Do his makeup and hair.

Q.

So he asked you to come work for him; correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you said, "yes"; correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you started working for him at that time; correct?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And sometime thereafter, a contract was negotiated with AEG Live for your payment?

A.

Correct.

Q.

At the time that you were hired, ma'am, do you know if anyone did a background check on you?

A.

It's so funny. I don't think so.

Q.

Why is that funny?

A.

Because I know there's a whole thing about background checks.

Q.

How do you know that?

mM

ich

ae

lJa ck so

A.

Te a

A. Because it's in the news. It's what the case is about, isn't it, a lot of it? So, no, there was no background check on me, that I'm aware of. Q.

Have you been following the case closely?

A.

Not too, because there's not that much information. But I do hear things, yes, sir, on the news, internet.

w.

Q. In fact, you talked last time about the idea that you have web sites and twitter accounts. You've been tweeting about this, have you not?

ww

A. Very little. I catch myself. People ask me questions, tweet me stuff, ask me, and so I'm, "oh, no. I really shouldn't be talking about this," so I really tried not to. Q.

Little tweets about the evidence, and things like that; correct?

The evidence?

Q.

Testimony that comes in.

A.

I don't know. I can't recall all what I tweeted and what I didn't. I tweet a lot, sir.

Q.

You do tweets a lot?

A.

Correct.

Q.

And you tweet a lot about this case and Mr. Jackson, do you not?

A.

I had before it started, and I've tried to not say too much now, sir.

Q.

So you've tried to not say too much since the case started?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Haven't been able to control it, so you just go out and do it anyway?

A.

Sorry?

Q.

So if you tried not to, why did you tweet anyway?

ae

lJa ck so

n.c om

A.

ich

A. I tweet all the time, and not necessarily about the case all the time. But since... a lot... most of my followers are fans and who follow it very, very closely. A lot closer than I do; OK? So they'll say something, and my instinct is to answer the question. And sometimes I tweet it before I... you know, and then I say, "oh, no, I can't," so I pull back, and I try not to, sir.

mM

Q. The... so you said that you thought it was funny. I'll ask you: do you have any idea whether Mr. Jackson did a background check on you, ever? A. Not to my knowledge. I have no knowledge of what he did or did not do, because it was... I was, like, 27 when I first met him. So I don't know if he did something way back then or not, or any of his people did. I have no clue.

Te a

Q. And what about at this point in time in March or April of 2009 when he called and asked you to come back and work for him? Do you think he did one then? Did Michael?

Q.

Uh-huh.

A.

I doubt it.

w.

A.

What about...

A.

I don't know, but it would be unlikely.

ww

Q.

Q.

Why would it be unlikely, ma'am?

A.

Because I've known him for a very, very long time.

You already worked with him before?

A.

Pardon?

Q.

He had already worked with you before?

A.

Years, sir. We grew up together, sir, basically.

n.c om

Q.

lJa ck so

Q. And do you have any understanding as to whether AEG Live productions did a background check you on? A.

I have no idea, sir.

Q.

I'm not going to go into details on this. I'm going to ask you a question, though.

A.

All right.

Q. If they did a financial background check on you, would they find things that would indicate you might be a financial risk?

ae

Mr. Panish: I'm going to object: no. 1, relevance; no. 2, speculation as to financial risk. And also goes into privacy and confidentiality of this witness, who is not a party and hadn't put that in issue. Mr. Putnam: I think it's 100 percent at issue, your honor.

ich

Mr. Panish: this witness hasn't volunteered... come on. Judge: sustained.

mM

Mr. Putnam: all right. I'll move past that, then, your honor. Q. so you started working for Mr. Jackson in April and may of 2009; correct? I'm going to ask you very briefly, if you could tell me, what did you do in April and may, 2009, with Mr. Jackson? A. Four years ago, what did I... between April... you're talking about... OK. I... OK. Let me just... because I have to really think back. OK. Between April... you're talking about after I first met him? Uh-huh.

A.

To what date in May? To what was going on in may? May, were we at the forum.

Q.

Let me try to help with that, then.

A.

Thank you. I appreciate that, because it's, like...

w.

Te a

Q.

ww

Q. OK. Anything to help. You moved to the forum the very beginning of June. Before that, they're at center staging... A.

Correct.

A.

Uh-huh.

Q.

What do you do in April and May with Mr. Jackson up until the forum?

n.c om

Q. ... as well as he's doing things at Carolwood. So that's why I'm asking the questions. Up until the forum, so April and May, you go to Carolwood with the wig maker?

A. Well, there were some production meetings... like... OK. We were at the staging, OK. What's it called? Center staging? Uh-huh.

lJa ck so

Q.

A. And I would go there, kind of prep Michael's hair a little bit. We would have some meetings. I was still doing other jobs at the very beginning, because nothing was really solidified. Nobody was giving me a schedule of what I was supposed to do. I was researching all the adhesives that were available. I was figuring out ways to do my job and make it successful. I was doing a lot of that work. And I would... they would call me and say, "Michael is here, and he's asking for you," so I would have to go to center staging when he requested me. I had to... I went to a few production meetings. Things like that. Q. And did you get... in this time period, did the production provide you, say, with a daily schedule of what was going on? No, sir.

Q.

Was there ever a time when they gave you a daily schedule of what was going on?

A.

No, sir.

ich

ae

A.

Q. And when it came... you said they would call you and tell you you needed to come to center staging because Mr. Jackson was asking for you. Who would call you? Was usually Alif, sir.

Q.

Alif Sankey?

A.

Yes, sir.

Q.

And in this time period, April/May 2009, how often did you see Mr. Jackson?

A.

OK. How many days is that? You're talking about... give me a span of...

Q.

Let's say it's 60.

A.

Huh? 60 days?

w.

Te a

mM

A.

Q.

60 days. April and May.

ww

A. Oh, April and may. I really don't recall. I would go there as much as I could when Michael was there. So when he was there, I was usually there. Q.

So let's take an estimate...

How many days was Michael there? You're asking me to guess stuff, you know.

Q.

I'm certainly not asking you to guess, ma'am.

A.

Yeah. You said, "let's guess."

Q.

I said, let's estimate.

A.

Let's estimate.

Q.

I wasn't there, you were. So I'm trying to find out...

A.

Right.

Q.

... how often were you there? You said you were usually...

A.

OK. And the forum. Are you including the forum in that, also?

Q.

No. April, may.

A.

Just center staging?

Q.

Just center staging. And that's exactly why I'm doing it. I'm trying to break it into parts.

ae

lJa ck so

n.c om

A.

ich

A. They were there working before I was. I began... I'm telling you, I began to work with Michael almost immediately, trying to do all these wigs and things. So I don't know how often I really went. I could not tell you. I can't even really kind of guesstimate, because I can't recall. But I would be there when Michael was there, when people requested me to be there. And I went as often as I could. And that was at center staging?

A.

Correct.

Q.

You mentioned that you went this first time to Carolwood with your wig maker?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Did you go other times to Carolwood in April and May?

Te a

mM

Q.

w.

A. Yeah, I would have, because the first time I didn't get to do what I needed to do. I needed to take measurements of Michael's head. That's why I brought the wig maker with me. We had to make exact measurements of every aspect of his head, and that didn't get done, because we spent so much time kind of hanging out and being happy and talking, and so that never happened. So we had a return visit to do that. So that would have been twice. Then once that was made, I went back to put it on for him, so... Three times?

A.

Yeah, maybe.

ww

Q.

Q.

OK. And in that time, did you get a tour of the house?

A.

No, sir. I never had a tour of the house, no.

A.

I worked on the very ground floor, and I had seen the first floor, sir.

Q.

So when you say, "ground floor," is that the floor below where you walk in?

A.

That's correct.

Q.

I think they said there was a gym down there and a theater?

n.c om

Did you ever leave the first floor?

lJa ck so

Q.

A. I didn't wander around there too much, because I worked in a bedroom with a good-sized bathroom in it, was where I was. Q.

Downstairs?

A.

Correct.

Q.

Did you ever go to the second floor? To the bedrooms on the second floor?

A.

No, sir.

ae

Mr. Putnam: should I start a new area, or is it... it's up to you. Judge: if it's a new area, no. We can break now. OK. 1:30.

A.

Calendar this afternoon.

ich

Mr. Panish: well, your honor, I think you have

mM

Judge: oh, I do. You guys know more than I do. OK. 2:00, then. Thank you. (the jury exited the courtroom at 11:58 a.m.) Judge: OK. See you in the afternoon, then.

Te a

(the following proceedings were heard in open court, outside the presence of the jury): Judge: Does she need any of the documents that you gave her earlier? Mr. Putnam: If so, your honor, I'll give her new ones.

w.

Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, we have extra copies; so if anything is needed, we can find another one. Mr. Panish: I doubt it.

ww

(the following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jurors): Judge: Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live. Good afternoon, everybody. You May continue.

Cross-examination by Marvin Putnam:

n.c om

Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.

Q. Ms. Faye, in the hopes of getting this over with today, I'm going to do a couple of things to maybe speed it up a bit. A. That would be great. Q. I'm trying. If it goes too fast so you don't understand the question, please let me know.

lJa ck so

A. Okay.

Q. One way I thought I could do it is this. There was an exhibit that was admitted before that shows the calendar where people were at certain points. And I'm going to put that up, if I May. It's exhibit 13403. A. That's the venue thing? Q. Right. A. That's not this?

ae

Q. It's a demonstrative just to show -- I'm going to go through like we did before. So the date we're talking about was at Center Staging from March 28 to May 27. Do you see that there? A. Oh, here. I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about this thing. Okay. March 28th through May 27th, Center Staging. Okay.

ich

Q. And then it moved on to the Forum May 27 to June 23rd. Do you see that? A. Okay.

mM

Q. And then June 23rd until Mr. Jackson's passing --

A. Because we moved out of the Forum before the 23rd. Q. Exactly, because you moved out and they had to take a couple of days to move in, right? A. Correct, uh-huh.

Te a

Q. And does this roughly comport to your understanding -A. Does it what?

Q. Is it roughly what you remember as to where -A. What was the word that you used?

w.

Q. "Comport."

A. "Comport." That's a new one. Okay. It looks pretty -- it looks pretty accurate.

ww

Q. Okay. So I'll just leave that there to help, maybe help it go along. So the time we were talking about was the time at Center Staging, and we talked about -- you talked about a couple of times, you said three, that you might have gone to Carolwood in that time period.

n.c om

A. Okay.

Q. And we were trying to figure out if you had any idea of how often you saw Mr. Jackson at Center Staging in this time period. And you asked how many days, I had guessed 60. So a little -A I just -- I can't remember. Q. You don't know. Do you think it was more than once a week?

Q. Do you think it was as many times as four times a week? A. I mean, it could have been. I can't swear to it. Q. You just don't know? A. Okay. I don't know. Q. That's my question. You just don't know? A. I just can't really recall how many times I went there.

lJa ck so

A. Yes.

ae

Q. All right. And then the time came where it moved to the Forum. You remember that, right? A. Yes.

A. Correct, correct.

mM

Q. Do you remember that?

ich

Q. And do you remember the time that it moved to the Forum, concurrently, you were shooting short films down at Culver?

A. It was like in the beginning -Q. Of June?

A. Before we even really did anything at the Forum, I think.

Te a

Q. Okay. And in this time period, the beginning of June, I'm not talking about the last week -- all right? So the beginning of June, at that time period, did you believe that Mr. Jackson seemed upbeat? A. Are you talking about when we were making the films? Q. Making the films in your first two weeks at the Forum there.

w.

A. He seemed okay.

Q. And did he seem focused to you at that time period?

ww

A. In comparative to how I used to know him. Q. Uh-huh. A. It was -- it was a little different, you know. I can't say it was exactly how it used to be, you know; but he seemed

Q. Okay. A. At that time -Q. And it had been four years since you'd last seen him, correct? A. Correct.

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relatively okay, he was able to function, everything. I noticed some physical things that were odd, but --

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Q. And it had been more than a decade since you had worked with him and he had performed, correct? Or about a decade? A. When was his last performance? Q. I think it was maybe 2001. A. 2000 -- I think so, yeah. Q. The 30th anniversary show? A. So that would be -- oh, yeah.

ae

Q. So --

A. I appreciate the help. I'm really bad with dates and stuff. I really do. I really do. So if you --

ich

Q. That's what I'm trying to do this afternoon. I don't want to be too leading with it to the point where I'm putting words in your mouth. A. I gotcha. But date and time is kind of helpful to me because I'm old. Okay.

A. Correct. I think 50.

mM

Q. Speaking of old, Mr. Jackson was a lot older at this point, too, right?

Q. It had been about a decade since you'd worked with him? A. Uh-huh.

Te a

Q. But at this time period at the beginning at the Forum, you didn't have any particular concerns, correct? A. The dryness of his skin bothered me during the filming, because it was really, really dry, and that kind of bothered me. But it wasn't something that would send up any kind of major alarms. Q. And, in fact --

ww

w.

A. It was his -- his thinness kind of -- I was trying -- let me -- I -- his thinness was still bothering me because I -- I noticed that he wasn't -- from the time I first met him, I thought he needed to gain like 15 pounds; but instead, he wasn't like gaining anything, so that was concerned -- that was a concern to me so much that acacia -- I brought Acacia over. And she used to be his cook a long time ago, chef, during the Bad tour, and during the Bad era, from the very beginning. And he used to love her food. And she opened up a restaurant across the street from Culver Studios, so I thought it would be a really good way to try to introduce him into maybe eating more by inviting her over to bring some lunch, so I did that. I still was concerned, because I did that. I just really wanted him to get in touch with things that he really liked, you know, and maybe he'd start eating more.

A. I would say that was correct. Q. And just very quickly on the Acacia. Acacia had formerly been his chef, right? A. Yes.

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Q. But -- but there was not particular concern, other than the weight and the dry skin, during this period of time, correct?

Q. And you had brought her over -- do you remember it was on June 8 that you brought her over?

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A. I don't remember the date, again; but it was during the filming, because she was so close, and I really wanted -because, you know, Acacia had never met his kids or anything, you know. It was really nice. Q. That was a great day, wasn't it? A. It was a good day, yeah.

Q. And it was like a 12-hour day, was it not? Do you remember? A. I don't recall.

Q. Do you remember him being there quite a long day that day?

ae

A. It was a working day. In my business it can be a long -- 12 hours.

Q. But a time came where you did grow concerned, and that was in the week prior to his passing, correct?

ich

A. Yes.

Q. And was that the time period in which you actually -- that's when you first became truly concerned that there might be something wrong with Mr. Jackson?

mM

A. Yes. Q. And you noticed a change that week?

Te a

A. I have to say when -- you know, when he first got up onstage, the first thing he kind of did onstage was a solo thing. I think it was Billie Jean, and you know, he did -- did really well. It wasn't the -- you know, the Michael Jackson when he was 29; but, you know -- and Billie Jean is -- he did Billie Jean and the dancers all watched him and, you know, they were just -- "that's Michael Jackson. I'm seeing him do Billie Jean. they were all really excited about it, and we all felt good about that. But then afterwards, when -- it just kind of changed when he had to get up onstage with everybody else and actually do -- start rehearsing the show. Q. And that concern arose in the last week of his life, correct, ma'am? A. Pardon?

w.

Q. That concern of yours arose in the last week of his life, correct? A. (no audible response)

ww

Q. You tried to figure out why there was a change? Judge: Was that a "yes"? The witness: "Yes." I'm sorry.

A. Yes. Q. And how did you go about trying to figure out what was wrong? A. Well, I think the first thing was I asked Michael's security if he was going to Dr. Klein.

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Q. And you tried to figure out what was wrong, didn't you?

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Q. So you were concerned; and your first question was to his security to say, "Is he going to see Dr. Klein?" why did you ask that? A. It was -- because -- because, as I said before, and I explained before, I was always kind of on the lookout for doctors and things like that getting involved. Q. And -- but did you ask them if he was going to see Dr. Metzger?

A. No, I didn't ask them that because I had talked to Dr. Metzger about other things, and I think Dr. Metzger would have told me. Q. And you also had been to Dr. Klein's office to pick up creams, had you not? A. Yes.

ae

Q. So why was it that when you saw that there was something wrong, you went to security to ask is he going to see Dr. Klein?

ich

A. Say that question again?

Q. When you became concerned in that last week, you went to Mr. Jackson's security and said, "is he going to see Dr. Klein?" Correct?

mM

A. Uh-huh.

Q. And why is it Dr. Klein is the person you asked if he was going to see? A. Why did I go to Dr. Klein? Because in the media, there were reports that he was -- like the -- that he had gone there, you know, and I kind -- what I asked was how often was he going.

A. Yes.

Te a

Q. And you knew Dr. Klein, did you not?

Q. And you had known that he was a dermatologist? A. Correct.

w.

Q. And you had known that Mr. Jackson had seen him for years, correct? A. Correct.

ww

Q. And you had an understanding that he was going to see him in this time period, correct? A. By the media, yes, correct. Q. But then you asked security, and did they confirm for you whether he was seeing -- going to see Dr. Klein?

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A. Yes. Q. And did they confirm to you how often? A. They said probably maybe three, four days a week. Q. And did that concern you?

Q. And why did that concern you?

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A. Yes. Oh, I said, "yes." Yes, it did.

A. Well, because of the past with everything I explained to you before, when I see doctors getting really involved in his life, it kind of was this moment of -- where I would be concerned. Q. So it wasn't Dr. Klein in particular?

A. Well, it was Dr. Klein in particular in this instance because that's where he was going. Q. But you also knew that he had a Dr. Metzger who was his longtime doctor, right? A. Yes.

ae

Q. But you weren't concerned about him seeing Dr. Metzger?

ich

A. I didn't see him going to him on a regular basis. In fact, Dr. Metzger asked me if I could -- could I -- "I would love to see Michael. Can you tell him that I would just love to see him and meet his children?" so there wasn't -- he wasn't going -- that's why it wasn't a concern, because Dr. Metzger just wanted to say hello to him. Q. So at this point in time, which is the week before Mr. Jackson's passing, you didn't have an understanding as to whether or not Dr. Metzger had already seen Mr. Jackson in that time period? And by "that time period," I mean 2009.

mM

A. I think they actually -- I think they met. I think they actually did meet at some particular time. I can't be certain of that. Q. Okay. Now, did you ask Mr. Jackson's security why they were taking Mr. Jackson to see Dr. Klein? A. No.

A. No.

Te a

Q. I'm not asking what they told you, I'm asking did you ask them.

Q. So you didn't ask them. Did you ask them why -- what kind of treatment Dr. Klein was providing? A. No.

w.

Q. Did you ask Mr. Jackson why he was going to see Dr. Klein? A. No.

ww

Q. But you were concerned about the fact that he was going to see Dr. Klein, correct? A. It -- yeah, I was a little concerned. Q. Did you express that concern to anybody?

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A. Yes. Q. Who did you express that to? A. Frank Dileo. Q. And who is Mr. Dileo? Just to remind --

Q. Okay. Let me ask you in a broader sense. A. Okay. Q. How long had you known Mr. Dileo at this point? A. I've known Frank Dileo since the '80's.

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A. Frank Dileo was working -- well, you know, I just can't -- it's really hard for me to tell you because the title is so unclear.

Q. And have you known him about as long as you've known Mr. Jackson?

ae

A. Probably longer, because I kind of knew him in pittsburgh when I was growing up. We're both from the same city. But yes -- yes, but not professionally -- I've known him for a long time. Q. And you knew him to be Mr. Jackson's manager at various points?

ich

A. Correct.

Q. And he was working with Mr. Jackson in some capacity on the This Is It tour? A. Correct.

mM

Q. And he's the person you asked about why Mr. Jackson was going to see Dr. Arnold Klein? A. No, I didn't ask him that question.

Q. You spoke to him about it? I'm not asking what he said, but you spoke to him about it?

Te a

A. I'm just trying to think. Did I speak to -- I had conversations with him regarding my concerns, and part of that was Michael's visits to Arnold Klein. Q. And by this period of time, you understood that Mr. Jackson was seeing a Dr. Conrad Murray, as well, did you not? A. I did not know that until the middle of the week when I was really getting worried about Michael's psychological state. Q. And that's the week before his passing, correct?

w.

A. Correct.

ww

Q. So at this period of time, you were concerned about Dr. Arnold Klein, and you were aware of Dr. Conrad Murray; is that fair to say? A. Correct, in the week before Michael passed, yes. Q. And did you express any concern to anyone about Dr. Conrad Murray at that time?

Q. I don't want to know what he told you. A. Oh. I -Q. Just -- I'm sorry if I put my hand up. I'm not trying to be rude.

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A. I had a conversation with Kenny Ortega when Kenny Ortega told me about --

A. I got the hand. I got the hand. I know you're trying to stop me. Okay. I had a conversation with Kenny Ortega.

A. Yes.

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Q. About -- and did you ask Mr. Ortega about Dr. Conrad Murray?

Q. And did you ask him why he was treating Michael Jackson? A. No.

Q. Did you ask Mr. Ortega why Dr. Arnold Klein was treating Michael Jackson? Mr. Panish: Your honor, excuse me. Isn't this all hearsay?

ae

Mr. Putnam: "Did you ask him?" Judge: Probably.

ich

Mr. Panish: "Did you ask him," that reveals the substance of the conversation. If you asked him, if the answer is yes, then that's a hearsay statement. Mr. Putnam: No. Actually, your honor --

mM

Mr. Panish: Absolutely is.

Mr. Putnam: Your honor, what I'm asking -- because what I think is important here is what her concerns were, and who she went to to ask about them, and what she inquired of. I'm not asking what they said, I'm not asking what the response was. I don't want to know any of that. What I want to know is what she did. Mr. Panish: What you inquire of is hearsay.

Te a

Judge: Overruled. You May continue. Mr. Putnam: Thank you.

The witness: After all that, would you mind repeating it, please? Mr. Putnam: I don't mind at all, ma'am.

w.

Q. So at this time period, did you express to Kenny Ortega any concern you had about Dr. Conrad Murray? A. Yes.

ww

Q. And at that time period, did you express any concern you had about -- strike that. In terms of that, what was your concern at that time, your concern at that time about Mr. Conrad Murray? A if he was a psychologist.

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Q. And that was something you expressed to Mr. Ortega? A. Correct.

Q. And did you have any other concern that you expressed to Mr. Ortega at that time in terms of Dr. Conrad Murray? A. I didn't know Conrad Murray at that particular point, so I didn't have a reference of questions.

A. Other than what I thought Michael needed.

lJa ck so

Q. Okay.

Q. And in terms of Dr. Arnold Klein, were you at all specific to Kenny Ortega as to what your concern was about Dr. Arnold Klein? Mr. Panish: Just for the record, it's calling for hearsay. Mr. Putnam: I'm not asking what the response was. Judge: Yeah. I know. I'm overruling your objection.

Mr. Panish: All right. I'm just making my record. The hearsay is coming in all over, so --

ae

Q. Do you remember the question? A. Again?

ich

Q. I'm sorry. So at that time, did you express your concern to Kenny Ortega as to what Dr. Arnold Klein was doing in terms of his treatment of Michael Jackson? A. I can't recall having a conversation about Dr. Klein with Kenny Ortega.

mM

Q. Now, you never met Dr. Conrad Murray, correct? A. No, not -- not -- I was never introduced to him. Q. But you did see him once?

A. I saw the back of his head, sir.

Te a

Q. And do you remember when that was, ma'am, and where? A. On June 18th, sir.

Q. Do you remember where that was?

w.

A. At the Forum.

ww

Q. So we're in this last week, and it was during that -- there's been a lot of testimony about that last week, so I'm not going to try to revisit all of it. I'm going to ask you do you understand that in that time period, a day came when Mr. Jackson was cold and left rehearsal? A. Correct. Q. And do you remember that to be the 19th of June?

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A. Correct. Q. So you remember that day, yes? A. Correct.

Q. And when you were here last time, you provided some testimony about a fitting on that day, and you were asked about a photo that was taken. Do you remember this testimony at all?

lJa ck so

A. Correct.

Q. And you testified last time that you were there in the room for Mr. Jackson's fitting on the 19th. Do you remember saying that? A. I wasn't there for the entire fitting. I was there when it began and then I left the room because Michael was going to be changing clothes. And then after the fitting, I went back in. Q. So in point of fact -- because the testimony last time asked if you were there for the fitting, and you said yes. But you're clarifying now that you were there, but just at the very beginning and the very end; is that correct? Mr. Panish: I'm going to object to counsel's testimony as to what the testimony --

ae

Mr. Putnam: I'll show it.

Judge: Sustained. Or you can ask her, "Was your testimony this?"

ich

Q. Was your testimony previously that on June 19th, you were in the room for the fitting when you were shown the photograph of Mr. Jackson with the white t-shirt on? Do you remember that testimony when you were here previously? A. The exact thing I said, but I'm going to clarify -- because like I was -- can I do that?

mM

Q. Yes.

A. Okay. I was preparing -- doing his makeup and hair in the same room when the clothing designer and his assistant was bringing in all the clothes, hanging them up, and preparing them, and showing them, and everything. But when it came time for Michael to actually put on the clothes -- oh, Michael also asked for Michael Bush to join him. So when Michael Bush came in the room -- and then I left while they actually did the fitting. And then when they -- Michael was actually in the clothes, I -- when they were done, I came back in and Michael Bush and Michael Jackson were in the room. So I was not there when they were like actually putting the clothes on him, but I was there during portions of it.

Te a

Q. And so -- that's a proper clarification as to how -A. Why I would say -- why I was there during the fitting. Q. And so the photo you were shown --

w.

A. Correct.

Q. -- you didn't actually see Mr. Jackson when he was down to his t-shirt, correct?

ww

A. I saw him down to his t-shirt on several occasions. Did I see the actual -- when they put those things on his shoulders? I wasn't in the room when they did that or took pictures. But I have to say that I had to wire Michael's body during this particular time, and he had to be in a t-shirt, and I was putting wires and battery packs on him. Q. And I'm just asking about the fitting that day on the 19th.

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A. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead.

Q. So you didn't -- that photo that you were shown, you didn't see him as he was depicted in that photo, correct? Do you remember the photo -A. Yes, I did not see that picture being taken.

Q. Okay. The -- so on the 19th, Mr. Jackson ultimately was sent home and didn't go out and rehearse that evening, correct?

lJa ck so

A. Correct.

Q. And for point of record, I'm just going to tell you that was the 19th, it's a Friday. Okay? A. Correct.

Q. And do you remember testifying last time that you were pressured to get Michael onstage and to not listen to him? A. Yes.

Q. I'm going to ask you a question. Did Randy Phillips personally ever pressure you to get Michael Jackson onstage?

ae

A. No.

Q. Did Paul Gongaware ever pressure you personally to get Michael Jackson onstage?

ich

A. No.

Q. Did Randy Phillips ever instruct you personally to not listen to Michael Jackson? A. No.

mM

Q. Did Paul Gongaware ever personally instruct you not to listen to Michael Jackson? A. No.

Q. Did you ever personally observe Randy Phillips telling anyone that Michael Jackson had to get onstage and rehearse?

Te a

A. He told me he wanted to build a wall around Michael, so that's what Michael -- so Michael was left with only time -"I want to put a wall --" he said, "I want to put a wall around Michael so he doesn't have to do anything but get to rehearsals." He was concerned about that, and he was concerned with him not being at rehearsals. Mr. Putnam: I move to strike as nonresponsive, your honor. Mr. Panish: I don't think so.

w.

Judge: Okay. Motion granted, the answer is stricken. Mr. Putnam: Let me ask you the question again.

ww

The witness: Okay.

Q. Did you ever tell him -- did you ever hear him instructing anybody that they needed to get Mr. Jackson up onstage? And by "him," I mean Randy Phillips.

Q. But you were there on the 19th when Mr. Jackson was cold, correct? A. Correct. Q. And you were there when he wasn't feeling well, correct? A. Correct.

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A. Right. I'm -- I'm trying to think because I was not around Randy Phillips a lot. I'd have to say not that I can recall.

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Q. And Mr. -- and you know that Mr. Jackson was told to go home and not to rehearse, correct? A. Correct.

Q. And do you have an understanding as to whether Mr. Jackson took a couple of days off after that? A. Correct.

Q. If that was a Friday, the 19th, do you understand that he -- that he didn't rehearse Saturday, Sunday or Monday? A. Correct.

Q. Now, on days like that -- let's take the 20th to the 21st and the 22nd. Would you still go to rehearsal?

ae

A. They were moving. There's nothing to go to rehearsal for, sir.

ich

Q. That's what I was trying to ask you. So at this time that they were moving out, there was nothing for you to do as the makeup person? A. Yes; I was supposed to go to his house, sir.

Mr. Panish: Just a second. Someone's phone is ringing.

mM

The witness: I think it's my phone in here and you're hearing it on the microphone. It's just vibrating, it's not ringing because I turned it off. Mr. Panish: Some people would say that's ringing. The witness: Well, is that -- i'm sorry. I turned it off -- I didn't turn off the phone, but I turned off the --

Te a

Mr. Putnam: No worries. The witness: Okay.

Q. You said that on those days, you were supposed to go?

w.

A. Okay. I was -- it was time -- it was time to change the unit that Michael had on his head, and we were trying to schedule a time to do it over that weekend. Q. And by the "unit," you mean the wig?

ww

A. Yes.

Q. And why was it time to change it? You just had to do that intermittently? A. What?

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Q. You had to change it intermittently, every once in a while?

Q. You were scheduled to do that that weekend, ma'am? A. Yes.

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A. Well, he had had that one on for what, like a month or something, month and a half, I put it on -- that was the first piece I had made for him that was going to be similar to the one he was going to be wearing for the duration. It was the first -- because the other piece that he had was a big, heavy kind of straight wig; and we went -- I made something that was a lot lighter and it had more natural curly hair to it. So -- and it was really important, also, you know, that we work out any bugs in it because I was making all kinds of alterations to it so it's something that he could perform in. So he had had that one on for -- for like a month or so, it was time to -- I made -- the next one was new and improved, and it was time to put another one on.

Q. And did you, in fact, go to Carolwood -- was that to take place at Carolwood? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And did you, in fact, go over to Carolwood that weekend and change the unit?

ae

A. No. I think I was supposed to go on Saturday, and I got a phone call, and I can't remember who it was from, and I think said, "no, he doesn't want to do it today." I think it was probably one of his security guys called, and then it was rescheduled for Monday. Q. So you didn't go Saturday and you didn't go Sunday, correct?

ich

A. Right. It was Father's Day. Q. It was Father's Day? A. Uh-huh.

mM

Q. So that would be the 20th and the 21st. And then the 22nd, did you go over and replace his hair? A. I went over, sir, but he did not -- I waited for a few hours, but I didn't get a chance -- an opportunity to do it. He said Michael didn't -- I think Trav -- I remember seeing Travis there, but he just stuck his head in. I can't recall if it was Travis that said that, "Michael doesn't want to really do that today, so you can go." Q. And you said you were there a couple of hours?

Te a

A. Yes, sir. I was waiting in the room underground where we usually worked in. Q. Were you there by yourself?

A. His kids came by with their pets, and we were talking and stuff. But other than that, yes.

w.

Q. But you didn't see Mr. Jackson that day? A. I did not.

ww

Q. Did you speak to his assistant, Mr. Michael Amir Williams? A. I'm just trying to kind of think because somebody had to have let me in the house, things like that, so I probably had some sort of communication with somebody who let me in the house.

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Q. I was actually going to ask you about that. On the times that you went to the house, because you said there were probably three times in April and May, we're talking about this time now on the 22nd of June. When you'd arrive at the house, can you just walk me through how you'd get in? Like you'd arrive. Was there a gate? A. Yes, there was a gate and a little intercom system. Q. So you'd buzz the -A. Push the button, identify yourself.

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Q. And then you'd go in? And would there be security there? A usually.

Q. Would you walk in or would you ring the bell? What did you do next? A. I was usually met, somebody came to my car. Q. And then would you be brought into the house?

A. Yeah; or they'd point to the door, or they'd -- a lot of times I'd have things or they'd help me carry it in, you know, yes. Q. Would you go in the front door or would you go in the side door to the right?

Q. And the kitchen would be that door to the right?

ae

A. I recall going through the kitchen once, but mostly through the front door.

ich

A. Yeah, it's over and kind of in the back on the side, yeah.

Q. And when you did this, would you go past the security trailer?

mM

A. I think there was some sort of structure -- I don't know if it had wheels or not, but a structure on the right side. Q. And did you ever go in that structure? A. Huh-uh.

Q. And on this day on the 22nd, you can't recall how you got in?

Te a

A. Okay. You want me to think about this? Okay. You know, I can't recall. Q. But you do know that you didn't see Mr. Jackson that day? A. Correct. And I went downstairs and waited for him. Q. And then ultimately, he wasn't going to see you, so you left?

w.

A. Correct.

Q. Did you see him the next day, the 23rd?

ww

A. So that would be Tuesday, right? That's when we went to the Staples Center, correct? Yes. Q. So this is the first time that you guys were at the Staples Center, which is June 23rd?

Q. And had you been in the Staples Center yet before the 23rd for the "This Is It" tour? A. No. Q. And was your area all set up already when you arrived, or did you have to set it up? A. They showed me a room where -- that would be my room.

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A. Correct.

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Q. And when that happened, the stuff that you -- did you have stuff at the Forum that had to be moved to the Staples Center?

A. Yes, I had some cases; and then I also had a makeup mirror and things that had to be positioned in Michael's room. Q. And was that already done when you arrived, or did that have to occur once you arrived?

A. Oh, gosh. I don't know. I -- Michael's -- I think Michael's mirror was set up in his room already, and probably the case was just rolled into the other room. Q. And was Mr. Jackson already there when you arrived? A. On the 23rd. I can't really recall.

ae

Q. Can you recall being concerned about Mr. Jackson's health on Friday the 19th? A. Extremely.

ich

Q. And now it's -- on the 21st -- sorry -- 22nd. On the 22nd, you went to his house and had hoped to put on a new unit and you couldn't. Did that make you -- were you still concerned at that point?

mM

A. Sir, I was very concerned during this period of time, this -- this time. It was like -- I was very, very frightened. In fact, I remember seeing -- when his children came in to see me, I -- I just had horrible thoughts of like, oh, my gosh, what if something were to happen? I don't know what would happen to these children. I was just really, really frightened. Q. Did you ask Mr. Payne, when you saw him, how is Mr. Jackson doing? A. He just stuck his head in and ran out. You know, it was just like -- you know, and ran out, so there was no even time to discuss anything at that particular time.

Te a

Q. Do you recall asking any of the security when you arrived how Mr. Jackson was doing? A. I made a phone call on Saturday to Alberto Alvarez and asked him to make sure he watches Michael very carefully because I was afraid. Q. Who is Mr. Alvarez?

w.

A. He was one of Michael's security. He was the one security guard that I exchanged phone numbers with that I would call that he would tell me if Michael was going to go to rehearsals. Because I wasn't getting any information from the production company on -- on any of the schedules, so I relied on Alberto to tell me what was going on and when Michael was going to arrive and if he was going to go that day or if he wasn't going to go that day.

ww

Q. So you called Mr. Alvarez on Saturday the 20th and told him to be careful and watch over Mr. Jackson? A. Just to watch because I was very frightened for him.

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Q. And did you ask Mr. Alvarez how Mr. Jackson was doing that day?

A. Mr. Alvarez didn't want to even stay on the phone. He goes, "What do you mean?" and he goes, "I gotta go." Q. So you didn't ask him how Mr. Jackson was doing?

A. I can't really recall. I probably did because I could talk to Alberto, you know, so I probably said, "Is Michael okay?" I can't be absolutely positive exactly what I said. Q. And did you see Mr. Alvarez on the 22nd when you went to the house and waited for Mr. Jackson for two hours?

lJa ck so

A. As I said before, I don't recall who actually entered or which -- which security guard met me or anything. Q. Do you remember asking any of the security how Mr. Jackson was doing on that Monday?

A. I really didn't have an opportunity to talk to anybody but the children, and I wasn't going to ask them. Q. All right. But you were there about two hours, right? A. Yes.

Q. So now we're on the 23rd, and you're at the Staples Center. Did a time come where Mr. Jackson arrived?

Q. How did he seem?

ich

A. I'm trying to think. Initially, he seemed okay.

ae

A. Yes.

Q. Did you -- were you alone with him in the makeup room?

mM

A. Not at first. There were kind of like meetings. I remember there were a lot of people there, and we were sitting around a monitor watching what was shot at -- at the -- was it that day or the -- we were -- there's one of those days we were watching the monitor, watching what was shot at Culver City. Q. Was there a time when you were alone with Mr. Jackson on that day? A. I'm thinking -- pardon?

A. Yes.

Te a

Q. Was there a time that day you were alone with Mr. Jackson?

Q. And when you were alone with Mr. Jackson, did you ask him if he was feeling any better after the 19th? A. I don't recall what I actually said, sir. I probably said, "How are you doing? Are you okay?" you know. I probably addressed it very casually, but I don't remember having any heavy conversation about it.

w.

Q. So you didn't ask him what was wrong with him the prior Friday? A. No, sir.

ww

Q. All right. Well, how was his performance that day? Did he rehearse that day? A. I'm sorry that I'm pausing. I'm just trying to go back.

A. Because it's a really long -- a long time ago. Q. Place and time, it's the 19th, he left --

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Q. I want you to.

A. I know. I'm just thinking of -- because I know I was setting up under the stage because he had to have a quick-change room under the stage where we were going to have rehearsal. Okay. I'm sorry. What was the question? Was the --

A. It was much improved, sir.

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Q. Did you think Mr. Jackson had a good rehearsal on the 23rd?

Q. What about on the 24th? He rehearsed that day, as well, did he not? A. Correct. Q. And how did he rehearse on that day, ma'am? A. It was improved.

Q. He stayed until about 12:30 that night, so into the morning of the 25th?

ae

A. I know we were all trying to get out of there probably around midnight or so, so I would say that was probably accurate.

ich

Q. Did you feel like those -- you were worried on the 19th, you said you were worried all of that week. Did you feel that how he performed at those rehearsals restored your hope in terms of how things were going to go? A. I would say yes.

Q. And did you think that as a result of those two rehearsals, that you thought that he could be ready in time for London?

Q. You didn't? A. Oh, no.

mM

A. Oh, no.

Q. So that didn't -- you didn't think that he could be ready now?

Te a

A. No. That was like in two weeks. Michael -- he didn't gain like any weight, you know, in those few days. He was still extremely thin. I didn't think physically he could actually do a show unless they made some major alterations to the -- how strenuous it was or if they could delay it, you know, even longer. Q. So you didn't think he could be ready after seeing those two rehearsals?

w.

A. No.

Mr. Putnam: Can I get the deposition, please?

ww

Ms. Stebbins: Which one? Mr. Putnam: Good question. 1/3/2013. And I'm specifically looking at lines 11 to 22. Mr. Panish: What page?

Mr. Panish: What did you say the date of that one was? Mr. Putnam: 1/13, I think it was. No. Sorry. 1/3. May I approach, your honor? Mr. Panish: Just give me a second to find that. January --

Q. Ms. Faye -A. Yes?

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Mr. Putnam: May I approach, your honor?

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Ms. Stebbins: 198.

Q. -- I'm going to ask you to look at the questions and answers -- it goes down to -A. That was -- this was at the Forum. This took place. Okay. So you're saying -Judge: Hold on. Let's see what we're doing first. Mr. Panish: Can I just see it? Because I only have --

ae

Ms. Stebbins: Here's a copy. Ms. Chang: Thank you.

Ms. Stebbins: I think so. The witness: Oh, here we go.

ich

Mr. Panish: Thank you. I'm sorry. 198, line 11, you said? Is that right?

mM

Judge: So do you want her to read it to herself right now?

Mr. Putnam: Yes, to herself. I want to see if it refreshes her recollection as to whether or not at that point in time she had hoped that he could be ready in time for London. The witness: Yeah, I had hope that he could be ready; but there would have to be a lot of alterations to -- to what he had to do, sir. Because it was a very strenuous show.

Te a

Q. So you thought he could be ready, but only with alterations? A. There was hope. It was just hope. I mean, I think it was just that I had hope. Q. And were you relieved?

w.

A. You know, I was somewhat relieved, sir. I had to say like I -- because I saw more of Michael, he was laughing and he was actually participating in a rehearsal, so there was -- there was relief that came with that. Q. You thought he was on a better track?

ww

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you think some of those symptoms you were worried about on the 19th were gone?

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A he was still cold; but his spirit was better, sir.

Q. And is this the point in time in which -- you said a point in time came where you talked to Mr. Dileo. Was this the point in time where you talked to Mr. Dileo? And don't tell me what you said. I'm just asking is this the point in time when you talked to him? A. Yes.

Q. And is this the point in time -- did you tell Mr. Dileo that you were glad to see that Mr. Jackson was doing better?

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A. I asked him why he was.

Q. Okay. Don't tell me -- the -- and at this point in time, he was participating in rehearsals, right? A. Yes.

Q. And I want to ask you about that. He -- had he gone through from the beginning of the show all the way through what was called the Motown medley? A. Without any stops or anything?

Q. No. Did he go through the songs from the beginning until the Motown medley?

ae

A. We did -- I can't recall, sir. I can't really recall what we went through because I don't even remember the -Q. Play list?

ich

A. I don't remember the play list. I mean, I'd have -- I don't think I could have -- you know, even if I saw the play list -- I just have -- I don't know. I don't have enough information and can't recall what actually he did. I was -- I remember they -they spent a lot of time with the spider that was for Thriller. Q. The spider, you said?

mM

A. Yeah, there was this spider thing that -- that Michael was supposed to come out of, and we were under the stage, and he was supposed to crawl up into this spider and then come out of the spider, so it was a real like mechanical thing that they were working on that they were trying to see how that was going to work. Q. And do you know whether or not he went through song after song after song? A. No, I don't recall that.

Te a

Q. You don't recall? So if -- you mentioned Alif Sankey earlier. Who is Alif Sankey? A. She was Kenny Ortega's assistant.

Q. And she was the person that you said would sometimes get in touch with you to let you know when to be --

w.

A. Correct.

Q. -- at a place? Was she a friend of yours, as well?

ww

A. I -- what -- how do you define "friend," sir? Q. Did you like her? A. I liked her. We didn't hang out together, and like -- I knew her from way back and some other productions, and so --

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yes, I liked her. Q. And had you worked with her before? A. I think I recall on another tour. Q. And did you trust her? A. Sure.

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Q. Now, if she's testified here that he performed song after song after song, do you have any reason to believe that her memory is faulty in some way? A. No. Q. You just can't recall whether he did many songs?

A. Correct, I can't recall like the -- the set list and how many songs he went through. I don't recall if -- like he could have gone through maybe half -- half of the -- but like whether he went without stopping, I can't recall, because, you know, like rehearsals, you go through some, and then when you -- you hit a point where you have to like revisit it and make corrections, you stop, things like that. So like going through nonstop, I can't say that I recall that that happened. Q. And -- but you thought he might have done about half of them that night? What about the next night, the 24th?

ae

A. The same thing. I have really -- you know, we went through things and, you know, it was -- it was a night like the night before. It was -- he was actually rehearsing, and he was onstage, sir.

ich

Q. Now, can you recall if Mr. Phillips was there that night? Mr. Panish: Which -- are you talking about the -Mr. Putnam: That's a good objection.

mM

Mr. Panish: I'm not objecting. I just want to know what date.

Q. Do you recall if Mr. Phillips were there on the night of the 23rd? A. I recall him being there one night; but I can't recall what time, which night. I recall seeing him at the Staples Center, and we were only at the Staples Center for two nights, so --

Te a

Q. I missed that last past.

A. We were only at the Staples Center for two, you know, work days, so -- i remember seeing him there, so -- but I can't recall which day -- oh, you know, it was probably -- wait a minute. The last day. Q. You saw him on the 24th. What do you remember seeing?

w.

A. Because he was in Michael's room at the end of the night. Q. So you recall that from the last night when you were there until about 12:30, 12:00, 12:30?

ww

A. I think so, sir.

Q. Okay. And do you have any idea one way or the other whether or not he was there the night before, as well, on the 23rd?

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A. I can't recall. Q. Just don't know? A. I can't recall, sir.

Q. Now, but -- and if I understand correctly, though, on neither of those nights did you mention to -- strike that. You indicated that Mr. Jackson's -- there was a levity and spirit, there was more of a lightness to him than there had been.

Q. And he was laughing again? A. Yes, sir.

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A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you remember making fun of the headphones that you talked about before? A. Yes, sir. Q. And he was referring to you by your nickname again? A. Yes, sir.

ae

Q. So all these were things that gave you hope?

ich

A. Yes, sir. He still kept repeating, though, which I found really odd, "I have no control. Why don't I have any control?" he said that a few times. There was still like this little -- a little anger there, you know. But yes, we did laugh, and -- they gave me headphones because they were making him wear those earphones, and he didn't like them, and -- but that was the only way they could hear each other. So they gave me one of those little things so I could talk to him. And we were making fun of that, you know, because it was just funny, you know, he had to hear me and I had to hear him. And he'd go "oh, no, now she knows." it was just like fun.

A. Directions.

mM

Q. I'm just curious. As the hair and makeup person, why would he need to hear you onstage and why would you need to hear him?

Q. For hair and makeup stuff?

Te a

A. Well, I -- I also -- we also helped him with exits and entrances and -- yes. I mean, because unlike other shows that we did, the room -- the changing room is -- they put the stage -- the changing room under the stage, so I could not be able to view what he was doing up onstage, like on top of the stage. And sometimes I had to be below the stage, so we needed to be able to communicate. But the other tours I was always with, the changing rooms were always located on the stage off to the side so I could just go out and see what was going on. Q. Okay. Now, you talked about Mr. Jackson's weight; and last time you testified you talked a lot about that. So his weight in this time period was something you were quite concerned with, correct?

w.

A. Yes, sir.

ww

Q. And when you first saw him in April of 2009, after not having seen him for four years, were you concerned about his weight the first time you saw him? A. I wasn't concerned about his weight for his everyday life. You know, like for everyday, it was fine. But I was concerned for his performance weight.

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Q. And when you say "performance weight," did Mr. Jackson have an ideal performance weight, something he called his stage weight? A. I don't know exactly what that was, but I think he liked to be at a certain -- a certain weight for performance and the way the clothes looked and things, so -Q. Something you might call his average working weight?

A. You know, the -- i'm not familiar with a number, I'm not familiar with a conversation that I had with Michael regarding that.

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Q. Do you remember ever testifying that his average working weight was 120 pounds? A. I said that in regards to Lisa Marie Presley gave me that information, sir. Q. So -- okay. But do you remember testifying --

A. And I think I said somewhere -- because Lisa Marie Presley and I became friends, and she told me that the weight that he liked to be was 120 pounds. Sorry. Is that hearsay stuff? Mr. Panish: Yes. The witness: Sorry.

ae

Judge: Yes. Mr. Panish: Why --

ich

Mr. Putnam: I'd like to show you something, if I can, ma'am. It's going to be your deposition on April 27th, 2012. And I'm going to show you lines 4 through 15. Mr. Panish: Page what, now? 400 and what?

mM

Mr. Putnam: 247, line 4.

The witness: 400? We have a long deposition. Mr. Putnam: 247.

The witness: Wow. Okay. All right.

Te a

Mr. Putnam: May I approach, your honor? Judge: Yes.

The witness: You didn't ask me.

w.

Mr. Putnam: May I approach, Ms. Faye? The witness: Yes, you May, sir.

ww

Mr. Putnam: You'll see here, I'm looking at those lines 4 through 11. Q. Do you see there -A. 4 through --

Judge: Read it to yourself. The witness: Okay. Sorry. Mr. Putnam: 4 to 11. Q. Do you see that, ma'am?

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Mr. Panish: Wait a minute. Hold on. I'm on page 247. Is this the right --

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Mr. Panish: 247, which lines --

Mr. Putnam: That must be a different date. Ms. Stebbins: Here. Q. Do you see that, Ms. Faye? A. I do.

Mr. Panish: Can I just look at it one second. All the way to 21?

ae

Mr. Putnam: I'm not showing it, I'm asking her if it refreshes her recollection.

Q. Does this refresh your recollection as to whether you testified that Mr. Jackson's working weight is 120, that that's --

ich

A. Yes, and I got that information the same way I told you.

Q. Okay. And do you remember testifying that's what he aspired to be? A. Yes.

mM

Q. And that was his perfect weight? A. Somebody told me that.

Q. Okay. I'm asking if you testified -A. I don't know how to address that.

Te a

Mr. Panish: I'm going to move to strike. It's all based on hearsay, what she's testifying to. Judge: Okay. Sustained. Mr. Putnam: Okay.

w.

Judge: The answer is stricken.

Q. This concern you had about Mr. Jackson's weight --

ww

A. Yes?

Q. -- did it become truly a greater concern for you in the last week of his life? A. Yes.

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Q. And in that period of time, did you think Mr. Jackson, just in that week, had lost 10 to 15 pounds? A. It was a lot, and that was my estimate. Q. So your estimate in the last week of his life was that he had lost 10 to 15 pounds? A. That was my estimate.

A yes, sir. Q. Did you ever discuss that with Mr. Jackson? A. No, sir.

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Q. And had you observed that Mr. Jackson was getting thinner and thinner?

Q. Did you ever tell him during that last week that he was really dramatically losing weight? A. Did I tell him he was dramatically losing weight? No.

Q. Did you tell him in that last week he was losing weight at all?

Mr. Putnam: I move to strike, your honor.

ich

Judge: Motion granted.

ae

A. Sir, Michael wasn't very coherent in that last week to have a discussion like that.

Q. Did you ever discuss that with him, ma'am? A. No, sir.

mM

Q. Did you ever tell him about your concern for his weight? A. Yes.

Q. You did? When was that, ma'am?

A. In -- in the beginning when -- in -- like March, April.

Te a

Q. And in this last week, did you discuss it with him at all? A. No, sir.

Q. And did you not do that because you thought it would make the situation worse?

w.

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you remember testifying that you believed that you didn't tell Mr. Jackson that last week because you thought it would make the situation worse?

ww

A. That it would make -- you know, I tried to explain that a minute ago, but like you won't let me say that, so -Q. Say what?

Q. Okay. All right. A. Did I say that in a way that won't be stricken? Judge: Well, if he's asking you for the explanation, you're free to give the explanation.

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A. You just struck what I said, you know. So like what you're asking me, you know, is because of Michael's condition, I didn't approach him with things like that because it could possibly make things worse.

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The witness: Okay. I get confused -- I'm sorry -- what's allowed, what's not, what's stricken, hearsay. I'm a makeup artist. I can tell you about eyelashes and who needs a flattening iron. Q. So you didn't tell him in that last week that you were concerned about his weight, correct? A. I can't recall saying anything to Michael about his weight in the last week.

Q. And that was because you thought it would make the situation worse because he didn't seem coherent to you? A. Correct.

Q. And did you -- isn't it true that you thought that while you could notice this weight loss, you weren't convinced that other people would be able to notice it?

ae

A. I thought others who didn't know him well or only saw him with layers and layers of clothing could not recognize it, sir.

A. It was possible that they didn't, yes.

ich

Q. In fact, you thought even the dancers that were performing with him didn't necessarily notice, correct?

Q. And it was possible that the people watching him from in the Staples Center couldn't have realized this weight loss, as well, correct?

mM

A. That's probably possible, sir.

Q. And you say that's because of the layers and layers. What do you mean by that? A. Michael was wearing layers and layers of baggy clothes, sir, during rehearsals. Q. So you thought that would make it hard for anyone to realize how much weight he was losing?

Te a

A. Those who didn't know him, yes.

Q. And there's previously been testimony and evidence presented that Mr. Jackson weighed 136 pounds at the time of his passing, from the coroner's report. You're aware of that, correct? A. Yes.

w.

Q. And you find that impossible to believe, right? A. Yes.

ww

Q. And why is that, ma'am? A. Because Michael had lost so much weight, and he was thin to begin with, and he kept losing weight, and I don't know if I'd ever -- you know, 136 pounds is a lot for Michael.

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Q. That's what I was going to ask you, ma'am. Regardless of whether 120 was his perfect working weight, you think 136 would be a lot for Mr. Jackson, no? A. Yes. Q. And then that's what the coroner's report reads, correct?

Mr. Putnam: Yes, she has. She's testified to it. Mr. Panish: Excuse me. And counsel is testifying.

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Mr. Panish: Objection, your honor. First of all, it's calling for hearsay. She doesn't know -- she hasn't read the coroner's report.

Judge: Okay. I'm going to strike the question and the answer. Start over. Mr. Putnam: Okay. Thank you.

Q. Did you have a -- were you asked about the coroner's report in your deposition? A. Yes.

ae

Q. Were you shown the coroner's report in your deposition? A. Pardon?

ich

Q. Were you shown the coroner's report in your deposition?

A. I don't know if I saw it or not. I know it was -- did I see the coroner's report? Q. I can show it to you again if you like.

mM

A. All right. Judge: He can show it to her now.

Mr. Putnam: It's exhibit 13362. May I approach, your honor? Judge: You May.

Te a

Mr. Putnam: Ms. Faye --

The witness: Is that what's up here, too? Mr. Putnam: Yes. Right here, ma'am.

w.

Judge: One of them is mine.

The witness: That's right. I'm sorry. I'm stingy.

ww

Mr. Putnam: And I'll direct your attention to page 15, I think it is. And if you look at the bottom right. The witness: Wait, wait. Page what? Mr. Putnam: 15. If you look at the bottom right, there's a long number, and it ends at 15.

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The witness: Okay. All right. Okay. Because there's a couple of long numbers on the bottom. Mr. Putnam: Right. Q. Do you remember being shown this at your deposition, ma'am? A. You know, I have to say I don't recall, but doesn't mean it wasn't. I don't recall.

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Q. I understand. It's a question about whether you recall or not. You prepared Mr. Jackson's body, did you not, for his internment? A. Yes. Q. And you did that at the coroner's office, correct? A. What?

Q. You did that -- did you go from the coroner's office with the body from the mortuary, or did you pick it up at the mortuary? A. It was at the mortuary, sir.

ae

Q. And did you ever discuss Mr. Jackson's weight at that time with anyone?

A. I asked the mortician that I was working with how much did he think he weighed.

A. He gave me an answer, sir.

ich

Q. And he told you, correct?

mM

Q. I'm going to ask you a question. You've talked a lot about -- and this is a lot from what happened last time. I'm trying not to go back and revisit it, if possible -- but about your concerns in this last week, particularly your concerns on the 19th, your concerns for Mr. Jackson's well being, and your concerns about his weight. Do you remember that? A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember getting very upset on the stand, particularly about the idea that you thought no one would listen to you in this time period?

Te a

Mr. Panish: I'm going to object to his characterization of her demeanor on the witness stand. Mr. Putnam: I was trying to be delicate. Judge: Overruled.

Q. Do you remember crying on the stand, ma'am?

w.

A. I remember being upset by certain things -- the line of questioning, sir.

ww

Q. And do you remember part of that was being upset because you felt like no one would listen to you in this time period? A when he was dead? Q. No, ma'am. I mean in the week prior to his passing.

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A. I -- I was kind of thinking people weren't listening to me, sir, because nobody was -- I was voicing my opinions, and what I thought, and I didn't feel I was being -- I wasn't getting too much response, sir.

Q. I want to talk about it a little bit. But those were concerns that you never expressed in that time period to Mr. Jackson? A. I mean, we had conversations with me wanting for him to eat, things like that, but -- but I -- I'm just trying to go back to the time because it's really difficult. That was a long time ago. There were issues about him eating, and I don't know if they were all with Kenny or I had them with Michael also included in those conversations. I can't recall.

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Q. Do you remember ever testifying, ma'am, as to whether you had told Michael Jackson anything was wrong and whether he needed to leave, your saying, "I'm not going to alert him to horrible things, he's putting up this front"? A. Can you -- can you like give me more information about that? Because I don't recall. Q. Sure. In your deposition, when you were asked why didn't you talk to Mr. Jackson --

A. Okay. Now I'm kind of getting what you mean here. So can you elaborate on that so I'm sure we're on the same page? Q. Sure. My question was, "Did you ever talk to Mr. Jackson in this last week about this? Did you ever say, 'Michael, is something wrong? Do you need to leave?'" And do you recall saying, "No. I mean, the thing is I'm not going to alert him to horrible things. He's putting up this front, it's obvious that he's putting up a front because --" I can keep going if it helps. I'm trying to do it without having to go through the whole thing with you.

ae

A. Okay. When he went out on the stage, I know -- like he was a professional, and I know -- yes. Q. What's the "yes," ma'am?

ich

A. The "yes" is like he would pretend everything was okay. Q. Did you ask him if he was okay in this week, ma'am?

mM

A. Did I ask him if he was okay? I have to say he wasn't in a state of mind for me to ask him that question Q. So you didn't ask him?

A. I would -- I would say that's probably accurate.

Q. And whenever he was at rehearsal in that last week, you were with him, correct?

Te a

A. Correct.

Q. Did you ever express your concern that -- in that last week to any member of his family? A. Not directly.

Q. Did you ever express it to his mother?

w.

A. No, sir.

Q. His brothers in that time?

ww

A. No, sir.

Q. You had worked with his brother Randy Jackson before, right?

Q. Did you -- well, Tanya Zilkie, were you still working with her at this point? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was she still in a relationship with Mr. Jackson? A. I think so, sir.

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A. Years before that, yes, sir.

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Q. At this period of time, were you worried at all that drugs had something to do with why Mr. Jackson was in the condition he was that last week? A. I was concerned it May be a possibility.

Q. And did you think it was one of several possibilities or was the sole possibility? A. I didn't know. Q. That's what I'm asking.

A. I didn't know what it was, and I have to come from that particular point. I was trying to find out -- I thought it was a possibility, but I did not know.

ae

Q. And -- so -- I just want to understand. So at that point in time, going back to that time, you just didn't -A. Which time?

ich

Q. That final week up until his passing, as opposed to today. A. Correct.

A. I did not.

mM

Q. You didn't know what was wrong with him, right?

Q. You were concerned? A. Correct.

Te a

Q. But you didn't know what the basis -- well, you knew why you were concerned, but you didn't know why Mr. Jackson was cold or having difficulty or -A. Or so thin, correct.

Q. And you didn't ask him why it was, correct?

w.

A. Correct.

Q. And you never asked any of his doctors why it was?

ww

A. I didn't have really contact with the doctors he was seeing, sir. Mr. Putnam: And I don't know how we're doing break today, given the different time, your honor. I have a new section, we can keep going. I don't know what you want to do.

Mr. Putnam: Okay. That will be good. Q. You and Mr. Jackson were very close in your 27 years together, correct? A. I would say so. Q. Did you feel like you shared a lot of things?

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Judge: I want to keep going.

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A. I would say we knew each other well, what we shared was probably not what -- probably the grandeur that you're thinking of. You'd have to be more specific. I'm sorry.

Q. Last time you were here you testified that Michael -- testified that Michael always thought that whatever doctors gave him, that would be okay. Do you remember that testimony? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was that based on?

A. That went way, way back, sir, you know. That was just like in a conversation that he always relied that doctors would be giving him, you know -- would give him what was good for him, sir.

ae

Q. So that's from conversations you actually had with Mr. Jackson?

ich

A. Yes, sir. But like that -- it was like, you know, close -- I'm saying this is our relationship. It was probably around this -about this time. This is the beginning, this is the end. It was probably around in here somewhere when we had that conversation. Q. So as you sit here today, you can remember having that type of conversation with Mr. Jackson in the '80's?

mM

A. I just remember his attitude towards doctors, you know, a long time ago, you know. He read medical journals, he would bring them to photo shoots, so he would study, you know -- he'd bring medical journals, anatomy books. I mean, he was -- he read everything. He was quite a reader, and he studied many things. And, you know, I just remembered that, you know, somewhere in the beginning -- in our conversations, like he believed that doctors, whatever they gave him or prescribed to him was okay. Q. And you saw him actually studying up on medical issues through books and magazines and the like?

Te a

A but of everything, sir. And that was just one aspect. He was fascinated with anatomy and looking at operations. You know those kind of like gory things sometimes where -- the operation books where you see like guts and everything? But, I mean, his -- he would like have like massive variety of books, music, things that he would bring that he liked to read. Q. And in any of those times that you had those conversations, did you ever discuss propofol with Mr. Jackson? A. Never, sir.

w.

Q. Had you ever heard of propofol -A. No, sir.

ww

Q. -- before Mr. Jackson passed? A. No, sir.

Q. Were you ever aware that Mr. Jackson had been warned repeatedly by doctors that he could die if he took propofol at

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home? Mr. Panish: Assuming facts not in evidence. Judge: Sustained. The witness: I mean, like when? Mr. Panish: Don't answer.

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Judge: Sustained. It's a sustained objection. Q. Did you ever speak to Mr. Jackson about any kind of drug at all?

A. I remember him asking me if my daughter smoked pot, and that I should never let her do that. I mean, it was more like telling me just stuff like that. I mean, like having -- he asked me that one time if I had any -Q. Painkillers?

A. -- painkillers. I remember that time. But it wasn't something that we talked about very much, or at any length. Q. And in the year 2009, in the time you were doing that, did you discuss any drugs at all with him during that time period?

ae

A. 2009, the entire year? Q. Yes.

ich

A. No.

Q. And the first time you heard of propofol was when Mr. Jackson passed?

mM

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And were you surprised to hear that he had passed from an overdose of propofol? A. Yes.

Q. And why were you surprised, ma'am?

Te a

A. Because I had never even heard of it before.

Q. And you said that you didn't know what was wrong with him at the time? A. Correct.

Q. Up until his passing, correct?

w.

A. Correct.

ww

Q. And then when you learned that he had overdosed from propofol, was -- was that something that then made sense to you? A. I didn't even know what it was, sir, so -- you know, I -- did it make sense? Mr. Putnam: Uh-huh.

The witness: I can't -- I didn't know what it was, you know. Mr. Panish: You've got to stop for a second.

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Mr. Panish: It's irrelevant what her state of mind --

Mr. Putnam: Your honor, foreseeability is an element of this, and the person who is closest to him -Mr. Panish: Can I make the objection?

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Judge: Okay. Make the objection.

Mr. Panish: Okay. It's irrelevant and foundation as to this witness's state of mind on propofol, what happened. I mean, where are we going? Judge: What was your question to her?

Mr. Putnam: This is a person who was very concerned about -Judge: What was your question? Mr. Putnam: Is it possible to read it back?

ae

Judge: Yes.

Judge: "Made sense to you"?

ich

(the question was read)

Mr. Panish: What is -- whether it made sense --

Mr. Putnam: Okay.

mM

Judge: I think that's vague. The question that you asked previously, "Were you surprised," I let that one go. But whether "It made sense to you," Sustained.

Q. You had concerns and you didn't understand what the problem was with Mr. Jackson prior to his passing, correct?

Te a

Mr. Panish: It's asked and answered three times. Judge: Sustained.

Q. Were your concerns about Mr. Jackson addressed when you learned how Mr. Jackson had died? A. When my --

w.

Mr. Panish: Vague and ambiguous, no foundation. Judge: Sustained.

ww

Mr. Putnam: Okay. I'll move on to another thing. Q. Last time you were here, you said Michael Jackson never took no for an answer. Do you remember saying that?

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A. Yes. Did I say that here? Q. Yes.

A. I know it's -- it was true in my case with what my availability in -- in -- my availability as a makeup artist. He never took no for an answer from me. Q. So you didn't mean that broadly, you only meant that in terms of yourself specifically, in terms of -A. That's all I can talk about, sir.

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Q. Oh. Okay.

A. I mean, that's all I know is -- when I would say, "I can't do that," he would come back to me and say, "Yes, you can." Q. Was it your understanding that Mr. Jackson wanted to do these shows at the 02?

A. Is it my understanding that he wanted to do these shows at the 02. I have to say the way he talked about it to me -- am I allowed to say that? Q. Yes.

A. -- he talked to me about it, it always seemed like he was convincing himself he wanted to do it.

ae

Q. Why do you say that?

ich

A. It was just that he always said like -- he told me why he was -- "I'm doing this for my children, I'm doing it for this." and like it was always kind of like he was talking himself into it. So he was saying that, but like it was always -- like do you know when somebody tries to, you know -- keeps saying things and they're trying to convince themself that that's the thing to do? That is the impression I got, especially in the very beginning. Q. So your impression was you weren't sure whether he actually sincerely wanted to do them?

mM

A. Correct.

Q. And as it got closer to the end, we're talking about --

Te a

A. No, that was when I first met him and we started talking about it, sir. Because like I knew Michael didn't like to do long-term engagements and concerts. He really didn't like doing that. That wasn't -- that was something he really didn't enjoy doing because it was very difficult on him. Because he told me the only reason he really liked to do that is, "I get to go to different cities and go into orphanages and go into hospitals." he made that very clear, even in an interview that I was working with him on where we had to actually re-tape the question because he told the truth and they didn't want to hear that. So -Q. In -- towards the end, the last week of Mr. Jackson's life, at that point in time, did you have a sense that maybe Mr. Jackson was self-sabotaging himself in terms of his ability to do the shows?

w.

A. I didn't understand what was going on at that particular time, sir, in everything. It was still a questio n that I didn't know what was happening, sir. Q. So is that a yes or no in terms of did you think at the time that he was self-sabotaging?

ww

A. I didn't know what was happening, sir; and I thought if he was doing any kind of -- anything -- any kind of drugs, that that could possibly, you know, not be to the best of his ability to do the shows. Q let's talk about it very specifically. Last time plaintiffs had you and they were asking you a series of questions. And they

A. Yes, sir. Q. And these are ones that you had forwarded after your concerns on Friday, June 19th? A. Say that one more time? Q. These were before -- a result of your concerns on June 19th?

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A. I forwarded them.

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asked you about two specific emails that you had received from fans of Mr. Jackson, and that you forwarded to Mr. Frank Dileo. Do you recall being asked about those emails?

Q. Forwarded them to Mr. Frank Dileo? A. I wrote them to Frank Dileo.

Q. And you attached some fan emails to forward them, correct? A. Correct.

Q. And you said at the time that you understood that you were to give them to Mr. Dileo because there was some what you called chain of command, and that was the way to get them to Mr. Randy Phillips. Do you remember saying that?

ae

A. I remember explaining chain of command and above the line and below the line, sir; and I was instructed to go to Frank's -- Frank Dileo told me I was to go to him with all of my concerns, so that's what I did.

ich

Q. So you actually -- so the reason, then, if I understand, that you gave them to Mr. Dileo wasn't because you thought that that's how you got it to Mr. Phillips, it was because you understood you were supposed to express your concern to Mr. Dileo? A. Okay. One more time, say that, now? Did --

mM

Q. When you testified last time -A. Go ahead, ask me the question again.

Q. I'm asking you here today when you provided them to Mr. Dileo -A. Correct.

Te a

Q. -- you were providing them to Mr. Dileo because you understood that's who you should express your concerns to and not because there was a chain of command and that's how you got it to Mr. Phillips? Mr. Panish: Vague, objection. Vague, unintelligible. The witness: It's kind of hard to --

w.

Judge: Do you understand it?

ww

The witness: Well, I understand; but like the thing is when -- when I'm telling somebody above the line my concerns, I'm -- my state of mind to that -- my concerns would -- that it would go to the people who it would -could help or to take care of. Like if you were to -- somebody -- you were supposed to report to somebody of something in an organization, you figure your concerns that you're giving that person to would be dispersed to the people who it would concern. So that's kind of, I think, my -- not "think." that was my frame of mind; that he is going to take that information and disperse it to the people, you know, who could help.

A. He told me to bring my concerns to him. Q okay. And is that why you sent him these emails? A. Correct. Q. And as you mentioned before, he's someone you had known for a long time?

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A. Correct.

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Q. Did you tell Frank because he told you to tell him?

Q. You're friends with him? A. "Friends" is like vague to me. Q. Did you feel close to him? A. I felt he's somebody I could talk to. Q. You had nicknames for each other?

ae

A. Well, everybody had the same --

Judge: Let's take a break. Let's take a ten-minute break. Ten minutes. Okay?

Judge: We need to get done today.

ich

(the following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors):

mM

Mr. Putnam: That's why I skipped all these sections. Mr. Panish: How much longer? Mr. Putnam: 20 minutes.

Te a

Ms. Chang: There is one thing, your honor. Last time we talked about having Kenny Ortega come in, having him deny certain things, and then bringing her back -- I'm sorry. Having Kenny Ortega come in, deny certain things, and bringing her back for the prior inconsistent statement that we talked about before. Judge: I vaguely remember that.

Ms. Chang: I'm just alerting you.

Judge: You're alerting me that she May be back for that purpose?

w.

Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, obviously, if she needs to come back, we'll have discussions at the time and evaluate whether it's acceptable or not.

ww

Mr. Panish: First of all, I'm sure as soon as I get up, they'll be doing sidebars. But we'll see. Mr. Putnam: if you'd like to ask us about things in advance -Judge: Can you estimate how much more time you have?

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Mr. Putnam: I'm going through two emails. 20 minutes. The key dates, your honor, the 20th and the 22nd, they went like an hour, certain portions. I want to do the other portion. Mr. Panish: Your honor, I've looked at the total pages that I asked. He's already exceeded the number of page numbers on his questions. Now, I'm not complaining, he can do it as long as he wants; but I think what they're going to try to do is run me out to the end of the day so -- whatever he wants to do. But I'm not complaining, he can go as long as he wants. I'm just letting the court know that, that at 4:20, I'm going to get up there on a Friday and, you know, it's really -- and I hate to have her come back. And I've been limited. But whatever.

Mr. Panish: Yeah, a lot.

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Judge: The problem is there's been some repetition.

Mr. Putnam: That's why I'm going to this portion, your honor. Mr. Panish: He asks the same questions over and over.

Mr. Putnam: Your honor, if we could have this discussion -- I'm not sure the witness should be here for all of this. Judge: You can step down.

Judge: I'm just concerned about the repetition.

ae

The witness: Oh, you want me to go away?

Mr. Panish: But he's asked the same -Judge: 15 minutes is the most.

mM

(Break)

ich

Mr. Putnam: I'm going to go only through these two emails which we've not asked about.

(the following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jurors): Judge: Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live. Continue, please.

Te a

Mr. Putnam: Before the break, ma'am, we were talking about two emails. The witness: Oh, hi.

Mr. Putnam: Hi. Sorry. I was just trying to rush so we could get done. The witness: I was just trying to sit down and -- okay.

w.

Q. Good?

A. As well as can be expected. I've got a headache, and it's hot.

ww

Q. Yeah. So you were asked about two emails last time, and I want to talk a little bit about those emails. A. Okay.

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Q. As indicated before the break, these were emails that you had sent on to Frank Dileo. And if I May approach, your honor, I'm approaching with exhibit 12850. Is that okay? Judge: Yes.

Q. While you're looking at that, the -- do you remember being asked about this email when you were here being questioned by Mr. Panish? A. Kind of. I remember like reading some of it, or -- like, yeah, it was -- I think I -- the past --

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Q. Just remind everyone, who is Tookie in this? A. Tookie, that is Frank Dileo's nickname.

Q. So this is an email that you had sent to Frank Dileo; and that was on Saturday, June 20th, in the morning? A. Correct.

Q. And that was the day that originally you were going to go over and redo Mr. Jackson's hair, but they cancelled, correct? A. I believe so.

ae

Q. And I'm going to summarize the email below it in one short word, which was a fan was writing to express concern about Mr. Jackson's weight, correct? A. Yes, correct.

ich

Q. And I just want to ask you very quickly, why were you getting this email, if you know? Did you get emails from fans with any kind of regularity? A. I was on facebook; and they were sending them to me, sir.

A. Correct.

mM

Q. So was it common for you to receive emails from fans in this time period?

Q. And this one here, this fan, marika, is in France? A. I don't know.

Te a

Q. Okay. I'll represent to you -A. The fr indicates --

Mr. Panish: Well, counsel is testifying as to where this person is now?

w.

Mr. Putnam: I'll represent to her that Hotmail.fr is a Hotmail account in France. Judge: He can ask her does she have an understanding.

ww

Q. Did you know who Marika was? A. No, sir.

Q. Is she someone who you had communicated with before?

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A. I had seen her. There were fans that I would know what they look like but not necessarily associate their name with their face, and they were people around Michael. Q. Was she one of them? A. I think so. Q. Okay. Do you know if you've ever met her personally?

lJa ck so

A. I can't recall. Q. Can you recall whether you ever corresponded with her other than this email? A I can't recall.

Q. All right. And go up. And it says that -- "Subject, Met MJ last week and worried." Right above it, it says "Marika sent you a message." and then there's an email that I believe is your email to Mr. Dileo. It says "Frank, unfortunately she is right. I am fearful he will make himself so sick he will die. If he doesn't do this show, he has nowhere else to go." Did you write that, ma'am? A. Yes.

ae

Q. I want to ask you, when you say "unfortunately, they're right," this is where she's talking about he's way too thin? A. Correct.

ich

Q. And it goes on to say "I'm fearful he'll make himself so sick he'll die"? A. Correct.

Q. What were you referring to there, ma'am?

mM

A. He was so thin, sir, I didn't know what he was doing, or how he was -- you know, I -- I was afraid -- he was obviously not eating enough, sir; and I was just afraid he was going to get so sick he could die. Q. Okay. And then you go on to say "if he doesn't do the show, he has nowhere else to go"? A correct. Q what did you mean by that? A. That was regarding a -- things that Kenny Ortega told me on the 18th.

Te a

Q. And I don't want to know those. All right? So that's -- so you're referring to something else, this is -- you're expressing it to Mr. Dileo, correct? A. Correct.

Q. All right. You sent this off to him on the 20th, correct?

w.

A. Correct.

Mr. Putnam: And then -- if I may approach, your honor? Judge: Yes.

ww

Mr. Putnam: This is exhibit 12748. The witness: This is hers, right?

The witness: I'm sorry. I thought that was the second one. Judge: Thank you. Mr. Putnam: All right.

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Mr. Putnam: Hopefully not, because I wrote all over it trying to expedite this.

Q. Now, do you recall sending this email to Mr. Dileo where you were forwarding another fan email?

lJa ck so

A. Correct.

Q. And the email below it, it says to Karen and Michael. Again, I won't go through the whole thing, because you testified about it before. And it ends with Sandy Stadler, s-t-a-d-l-e-r, in New York city. Do you see that? A. Correct. Q. Do you know who Ms. Stadler is? A. Not really. A fan, sir. Q. Is she someone you've met before?

Q. Is she someone you've spoken with before?

ich

A. I don't know.

ae

A. I don't know.

Q. Is she someone you corresponded with before? A. I don't know.

A. Correct.

mM

Q. So when you say she's a fan, it's based upon this email alone?

Q. And, again, I'll just summarize this is another email where a fan is writing in saying that Mr. Jackson is too thin, correct?

Te a

A. Correct.

Q. Now, in the email where you forwarded this email to Mr. Dileo -- let's go into that one. It's -- it says from wingheart5. That's you, correct? A. Correct.

w.

Q. And, again, it's to tookie, Mr. Dileo? A. Correct.

ww

Q. Now, this is June 22nd -A. Correct. Q. -- 2009? It looks like just before 10:00 in the morning.

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A. Correct.

Q. Now, this was the day that you actually went to Carolwood and waited for several hours and ended up not seeing Mr. Jackson, correct? A. Correct.

Q. Do you know if you went to see Mr. Jackson before 10:00 am that morning or after 10:00 am that morning?

lJa ck so

A. It was after. Q. So this is something you sent to Mr. Dileo prior to going to see Mr. Jackson? A. Correct.

Q. I'd like to go through it, if I can. It says "Tookie." That's his nickname, correct? A. Correct.

A. Uh-huh.

A. "When he asked me."

ich

Q. It says "When he asked to do this in May --"

ae

Q. Now, one thing I want to note, and then we'll go through it straight through -- but let me find the line here. In the -- I'll call it the second full paragraph -- you can tell the indentions from the right, not the left. So it says "When he asked to do this in May." Do you see that?

Q. Thank you. "When he asked me to do this in May, and met with him, I saw a slender but strong and coherent Michael Jackson."

mM

A. Correct.

Q. Do you see that? Now, this says May. You actually met Mr. Jackson prior to that, right? A. Correct. That was an error on my part.

Te a

Q. And so when you say that he was slender but strong and coherent, you're talking about when you first saw him in 2009? A. Correct. That was -- it was March and not May. That was a -- an error on my part. Q. All right. Now, going up just -- I'm going to go down through the email, if I can. So it begins with "I just want you to have this information to be one step ahead."

w.

A. Correct.

Q. Do you recall what you meant by that?

ww

A. Yes. I wanted him to know this. Q. Okay. And you go on to talk about his fragile state, and then you say it seems like he is setting himself up to be the victim.

Q. "I see his pattern once again emerging with his caretakers"? A. Correct. Q. "He uses them to finance his life"? A. Correct.

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A. Correct.

lJa ck so

Q. "And then moves on when he cannot deliver on his promises. I am not saying his original intent isn't to fulfill his obligations, but I'm merely speculating that he becomes paralyzed with fear. This is why I thought therapy for him is the most important element to this being able to succeed." Do you see that? A. I do.

Q. Now, what did you mean when you said that he was setting himself up to be the victim?

A. Sir, I was desperate when I wrote this email because I felt that I wasn't being heard or considered, and I really -- I wanted to get attention from the people above the line because I felt I wasn't being heard or acknowledged. So I composed a letter almost in their language to get their attention, to make them feel that they could be responsible if they don't do something. That was my intent of this, and to use language that was -- would get their attention. Frank Dileo told me I was not allowed to --

ae

Q. No, just -A. -- communicate with the fans. Sorry.

ich

Q. I don't want to hear what anybody said to you, I just want to understand what you meant by each letter like that. A. I'm trying to explain.

mM

Q. Okay. So when you say "This pattern once again emerging with his caretakers," What did that mean?

Te a

A. I saw him when he went to Bahrain after the trial, and I know the Sultan of Bahrain was really trying to help Michael, and they set up a record company, I think. He was supposed to, you know, work with them and do records. And through the media, I found out that that never really occurred, that I know -- I think the Sultan and the people in Bahrain helped Michael financially with his past trial, and I don't know what happened. I'm merely speculating. And I was trying to find patterns, I was trying to find out what was going on with Michael because I was desperate here, and I'm trying to say that Michael -- I didn't feel that Michael had intentions to do what he was doing, but that he was scared to death. He was frightened at this point, and trying to get -- and like that happened where Michael ended up not fulfilling those obligations with the people in Bahrain after I felt that they were helping him, and then I see this happen wherever -- there's all these people and -- for This Is It, and I saw kind of a pattern, and I was afraid there's something that -- fear was involved in this. There was something frightening Michael because he goes in with really good intentions and then something happens, and I'm just trying to figure out what this is. And I thought the best pathway, that he needed some psychological help for the pain that he had suffered physically, mentally, in the past.

w.

Q. Now, in the next paragraph, you say "I see so many people invest in his success and believe in him. Then I have to watch him self-destruct. I have seen with my own eyes him deteriorate physically in a month. I have seen him do this several times in my relationship with him."

ww

A. Correct.

Q. When had you seen him do this several times in your relationship? A. The trial, sir.

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Q. Okay.

A. The trial and -- and what I'm trying to say is I remember -- I think I discussed like the beacon theater. Like everybody was there for him, even all the talent and the celebrities, and we had gone through rehearsals, everything seemed fine. But when I went, he had taken something that made him, you know, in an incoherent state when I had to take -- when he had to do the show. So all I'm trying to do, I'm trying to figure out what is going on and I'm trying to put these patterns together. And I just keep coming up with there's some sort of fear going on. And then, also, the things that Kenny told me previously that had happened.

A. I think so. I -Q. Okay. A. Well, yeah, the things they experienced with him. Sorry.

lJa ck so

Q. Okay. But when you say "I personally have seen," you were talking about the things you've personally seen up until the Kenny part, correct?

Q. And you went on to say "I watch him -- I watch him turn people against each other who are working so hard to help him." A. Correct.

ae

Q. What did you mean by that?

ich

A. Okay. To explain this is that I think I -- I don't know if I explained this before or not, but the world around Michael is so competitive, and it seems like people are always trying to fight for a position to be closest to Michael. And -- how did I say this for -- and I just see this situation -- okay. Can I give you an example? Q. Sure.

Te a

mM

A. For instance, the whole like when Michael was getting fitted for -- and there was this designer Zaldi who was fitting his clothes. And when Zaldi left, and I was in the room, and Michael Bush was there, Michael asked Michael Bush, "I can't wear those clothes. I -- they're not going to work for me. Can you start working on other clothes?" and -- and Michael Bush said okay, but that wasn't what Michael Bush's job in the -- in This Is It was going to be. But Michael never told anybody else, he didn't tell Zaldi he couldn't wear those clothes, and he -- you know, so it created a conflict, you know. And I saw things like where Michael -- where Michael had like Mark Schaffel and Peter Weiss kind of in the same position at one time, kind of managers, and it created conflicts. So this is kind of the thing. And Frank -- I was writing this to Frank Dileo, somebody who had worked with him a long time who understood the competitiveness around Michael, and what was -- and -- and the conflicts that could come when you're working with somebody who was so prestigious. People want to be next to you, people want to -- they want to be you when you're next to somebody like that. Q. And then it goes on to say "He hurts himself most of all"? A. Yes.

w.

Q. What did you mean by that, ma'am? A. He's dead.

ww

Q. Well, he wasn't at this point, was he, ma'am? A. No. But I'm saying that -- that the -- the things that are going on -- okay? -- by creating the conflict with, say, Zaldi and Michael Bush, things kind of are difficult to negotiate for everybody.

A. Correct. Q. Why did you think they didn't deserve to become the villains or the financial victims?

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Q. And the next paragraph, you say "I don't think you, Kenny or Randy deserve becoming the villains or the financial victims." Do you see that?

lJa ck so

A. Because I felt people weren't doing enough and taking my concerns, and I thought that would get their attention because I -- I wanted to make it clear that they could possibly be responsible for -- for Michael collapsing, for Michael -for something horrible happening to Michael onstage. At this point, you know, yes, the possibility of death was there for me, because he was deteriorating so rapidly; but the fact that he would be onstage, that they would push him to be onstage in his frail state, they could be responsible for that in some way. Just kind of like where we are right now. Q. And so you were writing this because you believed that this would get the attention of -- of Randy and Kenny and others above the line who could do something about this? A. I was hoping so, sir. Q and you wrote it specifically with that intent? A. Yes, sir. Mr. Putnam: Let's go to the last paragraph.

ae

Judge: A few more minutes. Mr. Putnam: This is it.

A. Yes, sir.

A. I do, sir.

mM

Q. Do you see where you say that?

ich

Q. In this last paragraph, you see it says "This is between you and me alone"?

Q. And you wrote that to Mr. -- I'm sorry -- to Mr. Dileo, Frank Dileo, who had been Mr. Jackson's manager off and on for 30 years, someone you knew personally. And here you say "This is between you and me alone. I am leaving this in your hands as you have instructed me to do." so "This is between you and me alone." That sounds like you're saying it's between you and Frank Dileo. Did you actually mean it was between you and him and AEG Live and the --

Te a

A. Actually, yes. I was hoping to scare him enough that he would do it, sir, because he instructed me that I was supposed to come to him, and I was hoping and making this letter dire enough that he would take care of things. Okay? And I knew Frank couldn't stop the concert or postpone the concert. I was trying to get their attention to do something. I was desperate, and I felt I wasn't being listened to. I wanted a therapist for Michael all along, and they kept want- -- telling me, "oh, they have this doctor." and, you know, I just felt at this point -- this is the second letter I wrote with no response. No response from Frank Dileo, no response from anybody, and I was trying to get their attention with this, sir.

w.

Q. So this is both -- you're talking about what happened on the 20th and the 22nd when you forwarded emails about Mr. Jackson being too thin --

ww

A. Correct.

Q. -- to Frank Dileo? And on this, you have -- you were saying "This is between you and me alone"? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. And that was meant to mean that he was to direct these to the people at AEG and to the concert director? That's what -that's your testimony?

A. I was trying to make him feel that I was confiding in him this truth. I -- my intention was for something -- somebody to help Michael, whatever it took, sir. Q. That, I understand, ma'am. But you did say that this was between you and Frank alone?

A. I explained because he told me that I had to secretly bring him all the information I knew about Michael, sir.

A. Correct.

lJa ck so

Q. And, again, you didn't mention -- the next day you go and see Mr. Jackson at the 23rd and the 24th because those are the rehearsals at the Staples Center?

Q. And you didn't ask Mr. Jackson about his problems on the 19th on those days, correct? Mr. Panish: Asked and answered numerous times. Judge: Sustained. Mr. Putnam: No further questions, your honor.

ae

Judge: Okay.

Judge: Redirect?

ich

Mr. Panish: Can we put that back up, that exhibit?

Mr. Panish: I'm going to try to finish, your honor; but it's been all day. So I don't want to keep -- it will go fast, so -- that's exhibit number 12748. And if we could focus on --

mM

Ms. Chang: 344, dash, 1.

Mr. Panish: Well, whatever. "Michael is painfully thin," that paragraph. If we could look at that. The witness: Where --

Mr. Panish: We've got to blow it up. "Michael --"

Te a

Ms. Chang: Can we switch to pam real quick?

Judge: It's the last one we were looking at, right? Ms. Chang: The one right before it, right before, "Michael is too thin."

w.

Mr. Panish: Okay. Here we go. It says "Michael is painfully thin. His bones are protruding. I'm the one person that has physical contact with him every day. Michael is old, he's getting worse." The witness: OCD

ww

Ms. Chang: OCD

Mr. Panish: I'm getting old.

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The witness: I know, that C can look like a l, can't it?

Mr. Panish: All right. "He repeats his actions and rambling words constantly, rarely coherent with the present conversation. I see Travis struggling and winded just going through the motions at rehearsal doing MJ's part." Redirect examination by Brian Panish: Q. Did I read that right?

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A. Correct. Q. Is that what you were seeing? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Does that accurately show the concerns that you had, some of them? A. Yes, sir.

Q. It says "We are having Michael on a cherry picker over the audience, climbing very high, steep steps; and so far, he can't even walk down the ramp without assistance. Kenny has asked the female dancers to assist him leaving the stage." is that problems that you saw Mr. Jackson having?

ae

A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you a medical doctor?

ich

A. No, sir.

Q. These concerns that you had, did you try to do everything you could to ring the alarm, the red flags, on the problems that existed?

mM

A. Correct.

Q. Did Mr. Phillips or Mr. Gongaware ever come over and tell you, "we're going to take care of it"? Ms. Stebbins: Objection; lacks foundation that they ever knew of these problems from Ms. Faye. Judge: Sustained.

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Mr. Panish: Well, no.

Q. Did either Mr. Phillips or Mr. Gongaware come discuss Michael's physical condition with you? A. No.

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Mr. Panish: Now, let's take a look at exhibit number 0895. 0995. Ms. Chang: It's 08995.

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Mr. Panish: Something like that. The witness: Do I have that? Mr. Panish: Here. Trying to get through this.

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Q. Is that an email that you wrote? Ms. Stebbins: Just if we can see it before we start -Mr. Panish: Well, I haven't put it up yet. Q. Okay. Have you seen that before?

Q. Did you write that email? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can we put it up, please. What's the date of that email? A. The one -- july 1st. Q. Okay. That's a few days after Michael died? A. Yes.

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A. Yes, sir.

ae

Q. And were you writing to Mr. Phillips to tell him that there was some film taken of Mr. Jackson where he was at his worst, shuffling and wrapped in a blanket? A. Yes.

ich

Q. And had you told Mr. Ortega to make sure they didn't shoot Michael looking like that? A. Yes, sir.

A. Yes, sir.

mM

Q. And was it disconcerning to you that this film had been taken?

Q. And did Mr. Phillips respond to you? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. Let's see what he said. This is within -- how many days are in June? The next one. How many days are in June? 30? Okay. So this is within six days of the death, right? A. I think so. I don't know how many days are in June, sir. Q. I think it's 30. I'm looking at the calendar. Did Mr. Phillips write back to you

w.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did he say?

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A. You want me to read it? Q. Yes, please. A. "We control all the footage and it is locked in the vault at Staples Center."

A. What's that? Mr. Panish: well, I'm going to -- I'll give you a copy, put it up.

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Q. Okay. Now, I want to show you what's in evidence, exhibit 268, dash, 1.

Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, I object; lacks foundation to ask this witness about this chain of emails. Also beyond the scope of cross-examination.

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Mr. Panish: No. They asked about all kinds of emails that she hadn't seen, and this is consistent with what she saw. I made that same objection and said -Judge: I understand; but in that email, she was referenced in that email. This one, I don't know. Can I see the email, ma'am? Mr. Panish: Well, let me ask you this. Judge: Wait. Let me read it. Mr. Panish: I can do it without the email. Judge: Objection sustained.

Mr. Panish: Yes, it is, your honor. Judge: All right.

mM

Ms. Stebbins: I think it is.

ich

Judge: Hold on. Is this email in evidence?

ae

Mr. Panish: Okay. I want you to assume that Travis payne wrote an email on June 16th, it was communicating with Michael bearden, and that they were discussing --

Mr. Panish: I want you to assume that they were communicating on June 16th, "MJ is not in shape enough to sing the live stuff and dance at the same time." Okay? "He can use the ballads to sing live and get his stamina back once he's healthy enough and has more strength." Q. Okay? Was that what you were seeing?

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Ms. Stebbins: Objection; leading. Judge: Overruled.

The witness: I was -- just read it again, so -- I'm sorry. I'm just --

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Q. Were you seeing that Michael was having a problem doing the performance, the singing, as of June 16? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. Okay. Now, I want you to assume further that Mr. Randy Phillips wrote that he didn't know what Michael's problem was, chemical or physiological. Okay? Can you assume that? A. Can I assume that --

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Q. That Randy wrote that on June 20th. Okay? A. Yes. Q. Was that consistent with what you thought? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you think that Michael Jackson needed some type of medical assistance at that time?

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A. Absolutely.

Q. Okay. Now, I want you to assume that on June 20th, Bugzee Hougdahl wrote "My layman's degree tells me he," meaning Michael Jackson, "needs a shrink to get him mentally prepared to get onstage, and then a trainer to get him in physical shape." And that's five days before he died. Is that consistent with what you were observing? A. Yes, sir.

Ms. Stebbins: I'm going to object, your honor, to improper hypotheticals, lacks foundation. There's no reason for this witness to -- the jury can determine whether the observations are similar or different, your honor. Asking her whether she agrees with what other people described is not proper evidence. He should ask her what she observed. Plus they're all leading, your honor.

ae

Judge: Overruled. Mr. Panish: Anything else?

ich

Ms. Stebbins: That's good.

Judge: Mr. Panish, if you have a comment, you can direct it to me.

mM

Mr. Panish: Well, I was trying to finish. Almost every question I ask, they object to. I didn't object -- not much. When I did, it was sustained. So I want you to assume that Mr. Hougdahl said "My layman's degree tells me he," Michael Jackson, "needs a shrink to get him mentally prepared to get onstage, and then a trainer to get him in physical shape." Assume that he said that. Now think of the observations you were making as of June 19th. The witness: And what time was that -- that email that you -- from Bugzee?

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Mr. Panish: Late in the evening, 22:57. The witness: On Saturday?

Mr. Panish: Friday, June 19th. The witness: Yes.

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Q. Is that similar and consistent to what you were observing? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. I want you to further assume that Bugzee said "I have watched Michael Jackson deteriorate in front of my eyes over the last eight weeks." Okay? Were you observing the same thing? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. I want you to further assume that Kenny Ortega, as of June 15th, didn't think Michael was in good physical shape. Did you think he was in good physical shape or not on June 15th? A. No, sir. Q. No, he was not? Judge: Ma'am, you need to answer --

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The witness: No, he was not in good physical shape on the 15th. Mr. Panish: Okay.

Q. Did you -- were you aware -- and counsel asked you about June -- excuse me -- March 23rd, and I don't want to bring it back, exhibit 1301, dash, 2, and about the -- he showed you this calendar here. Do you remember that? A. I remember him showing me that. Q. But that wasn't what you looked at, right? A. No, sir, it wasn't.

ae

Q. Were you aware that Mr. Gongaware was trying to prepare the calendar for Michael Jackson, within two days of your email, stating that he wanted to make the calendar look like Michael wasn't working as much as he was?

Q. Were you aware of that fact?

ich

Ms. Stebbins: Objection.

Ms. Stebbins: Objection; leading, lacks foundation.

mM

Judge: Sustained.

Q. Did anyone -- do you know -- all right. Have you seen any emails regarding whether Mr. Gongaware was trying to make the calendar look like Michael wasn't working as much -Ms. Stebbins: Same --

Mr. Panish: Can I finish the question?

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Ms. Stebbins: Sure. I'm just trying to save time. Mr. Panish: That would be a first.

The witness: I'm sorry. That was funny.

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Q. Well, you didn't think -- did you think Michael could do the schedule as it was set forth? A. The schedule that I saw online?

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Q. Yes. A. No.

Q. Did you raise concerns with anyone about that?

Q. Okay. And who did you raise concerns with it about? A. Kenny Ortega. Q. And do you know whether or not AEG, subsequent to that, tried to change the schedule? A. I didn't know, sir.

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A. Yes, I did.

A. No, I didn't know that. Ms. Stebbins: Objection; lacks foundation.

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Q. Do you know whether Mr. Gongaware tried to make it look like it wasn't as much work as it was?

Judge: Sustained, and the answer is stricken. You asked the same question. That's why she's objecting in advance. She already knows what you're going to ask. So I'm going to allow you to do that, Ms. Bina. You have 20 minutes. Mr. Panish: Your honor -- okay.

A. Two years. Q. Three --

Q. Let's take a look here.

Q. Well, let's look.

mM

A. I thought it was two.

ich

A. No. I thought it was two or three. Two.

ae

Q. How long was your contract for that counsel showed you?

A. I'm not sure. I don't have it, I didn't memorize it. Oh, wait. It was in -- I don't know. You'd have to take the page, or -Q. Here it is. Right here. The term of the contract was --

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A. Term period?

Mr. Panish: What paragraph is that? Ms. Chang: Do you want me to show you? Mr. Panish: Just tell me.

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Ms. Chang: I have to go up there.

Mr. Panish: While she finds that --

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The witness: I'm sorry.

Mr. Panish: Okay. Here it is. I'm sorry. I had the right place.

Mr. Panish: Okay. Q. How long was the contract for? A. It's from -- from July 2008 to conclude on or about March 1st, 2011. Q. That's a three-year contract, correct?

Q. Was your -Ms. Stebbins: I'll just object it misstates the document. Ms. Chang: Read the term below.

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A. Correct.

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The witness: Yes, you're right.

Mr. Panish: The term below says "1.4, term, a period commencing on or about the date hereof, and continuing until one day following the last performance of the tour unless sooner terminated as provided below." Q. Did I read that right?

ae

A. Okay. Q. Let's just put it up. I'm sorry.

ich

A. 1.2, right? Judge: 1.4. The witness: Oh, 1.4?

mM

Mr. Panish: Let's put it up, the first page, please.

The witness: July 8 -- July 8 -- I feel like this is the home stretch and the horses are running as fast as they can. Judge: We don't have that much time.

The witness: I'm just like -- I'm sorry. I'm trying to understand.

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Mr. Panish: It's all right. Okay. Paragraph 1.4. All right. There we go. The term. Q. Do you see that's what it says for the term which I just read? And let's look at 1.2. A. Right.

w.

Q. And 1.2 says --

A. "July 8, 2008, to conclude on or about March 31st, 2011."

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Q. And it says "A series of concert performances of the artist in various countries and territories throughout the world and contemplated to commence July 2008 and go for a period up to March 3, 2011"? A. 31.

A. Oh, yes. Q. And you said you were requested by Michael Jackson; is that right? A. Yes. Q. To be the makeup expert?

Q. Okay. And who did you negotiate the contract with? A. AEG, sir. Q. And did Michael sign your contract? A. No, sir. Q. So who signed the contract? A. I think it was Paul Gongaware, his initials at the bottom --

ae

Q. On behalf of AEG Live?

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A. Michael -- Michael requested me.

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Q. So that was the contract you had for more than just London, wasn't it?

A. Pardon?

ich

Q. Okay. You were requested by Michael Jackson, and Mr. Gongaware signed the contract to retain your services on behalf of AEG Live, correct? A. Correct.

mM

Q. Now, next. I'm not going to ask about any shampoo or any bowls or any wigs, but what I do want to know is, why is it that Mr. Jackson needed these hairpieces? A. Why is it? For the show.

Q. Well, had something happened to his head at some --

Te a

A. Oh, yeah. He was burned a long time ago. Q. And that's --

A. He had damage to his scalp.

Q. Did he have serious burn injuries, as far as you knew?

w.

A. Well, he had first-, second- and third-degree burns on his scalp from the fire.

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Q. And I'm sure counsel wasn't trying to make fun of him or anything, but was the reason that he needed the hair because he had suffered a serious injury? A. Correct. Q. Now, you were asked about your -- whether they checked your background. Do you remember those questions?

Q. Were you being paid $150,000 a month? A. No, sir. Q. Were you providing medical care to anyone? A. No, sir.

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Q. Did you take a hippocratic oath when you became a makeup artist?

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A. Yes.

A. No. I had to take a union test, though.

Q. Okay. Did you -- did you -- has anyone ever died when makeup, to your knowledge, has been applied to them? A. I never even burned somebody with a hot iron, sir.

Q. Do you think that you were in a similar position when counsel was asking you about Dr. Murray? A. What's the question? I'm sorry.

ae

Q. Were you providing any medical care to anyone? A. No, sir.

ich

Q. Okay. Let's talk about Mr. Dileo. By the way, this Grace Rwaramba, did you ever see her give any drugs to Michael Jackson? A. No, sir.

A. Did he have issues?

mM

Q. You -- did Michael Jackson have issues with Frank Dileo, to your knowledge?

Ms. Stebbins: Calls for hearsay. The witness: I don't --

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Judge: Wait. Did what?

Q. Did Michael Jackson have issues with Frank Dileo based on what you observed and your history and years of working with him? Judge: Overruled.

w.

The witness: What does that mean? Judge: You May answer.

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The witness: I'm sorry. I'm getting confused. Yes, he's had issues with Frank Dileo. Q. And were you surprised to see Frank Dileo come back? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. Why? A. Well, Michael told me he'd never hire him again, sir. Ms. Stebbins: Objection; hearsay. Judge: Sustained, the answer is stricken. The witness: Sorry.

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Mr. Panish: Okay.

Q. Was Frank Dileo the one that said go get Michael a bucket of chicken? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now I want to ask you did you -- counsel was asking you about did you go back and find some text messages regarding these events and discussions with Mr. Ortega on the day the events occurred. A. Yes, sir.

Q. And did that refresh your recollection about certain facts that occurred in this case?

ae

A. Yes, sir.

ich

Mr. Panish: Okay. So I want to mark -- I don't know what the next exhibit is, your honor. Do you have that? We gave it to counsel. Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, if this is the exhibit that Ms. Faye produced this morning, we're going to need a sidebar.

mM

Mr. Panish: I'm just trying to refresh her recollection. I don't want to use up -Judge: Well, you can mark it if you're just refreshing right now. Mr. Panish: For that, but it's going to also be used for impeachment with Mr. Ortega. But I haven't showed it yet. First I want to -Ms. Stebbins: It May be --

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Mr. Panish: Let me please mark the exhibit first. Okay? Can we do that? Judge: Yes.

Mr. Panish: Okay. Can I show it to the witness?

w.

Judge: Yes.

Mr. Panish: Can I ask her to read it?

ww

Judge: Let's do this. You can lay a foundation for it, let's not go any further because -Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, we're going to need to be really careful because this is material that an objection has already been sustained multiple times on plaintiffs' direct.

Ms. Stebbins: Not to the exhibit, but to the subject matter of the exhibit, your honor.

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Mr. Panish: There's absolutely no objection sustained on this exhibit because I didn't have it.

Ms. Chang: Your honor, it changes a lot of things, so we're -- but he's going to just mark it and ask questions based on refreshing recollection right now. Mr. Panish: I'm not going to show it yet. Before I show it, I will discuss it with the court.

Mr. Panish: I'm going to mark it as exhibit 983. (marked for identification, exhibit 983, text messages) Ms. Stebbins: I'd still like a sidebar, your honor.

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Judge: All right.

Judge: There's only ten minutes left. I'm not going to take up ten minutes with a sidebar. Mr. Panish: And I can refresh her recollection with everything. Judge: True. Tread carefully.

ae

Q. Did these texts refresh your recollection about --

Judge: She hasn't seen them. They can't refresh anything now. This is what you need to do. You need to ask her a question, and then ask her if reviewing the texts would refresh her recollection. Let's --

ich

Mr. Panish: Okay. Do you know what happened on June 18?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection to the extent this calls for hearsay, your honor. I'm concerned the witness is going to volunteer hearsay based on the lengthy debate we had on this issue last time.

mM

Mr. Panish: Just say yes or no.

Judge: Overruled. Do you remember what happened on June 18? Mr. Panish: Without looking at the text. The witness: Yes.

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Mr. Panish: Well --

Judge: What? She doesn't need to look at it yet. Mr. Panish: I haven't got there yet.

w.

The witness: Do I remember?

Mr. Panish: Yes, specifically everything that happened on that day involving Kenny Ortega and Michael Jackson and Randy Phillips.

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The witness: Do I remember? Yes. Q. Now, do you know whether or not any meetings occurred that --

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Judge: Oh. So -- well -The witness: I don't know what to do. Mr. Panish: Okay. Q. Who is Barry? A. Barry is my boyfriend, sir.

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Q. Okay. Did something happen, don't tell me what it is, on June 18 that caused you serious concern? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. And what time at night did you get home when you were concerned about this event? Don't tell me what it is. A. You're asking me what time, but don't tell you?

Q. No, no. What time did you get home? Sorry. Do you remember what time you got home? A. Yes. Q. What time?

ae

A. 2:30 in the morning. Q. Okay. Were you very upset?

ich

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. The next morning when you awoke, did you immediately do something? Don't tell me what it was, just whether or not you did something.

mM

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you send a text -- don't tell me what was in it -- to anyone at that time immediately upon awakening? A. Yes, sir.

Q. And do you know did Michael come to rehearsal on June 18th?

Te a

A. Yes, sir; but late.

Q. What time did he come? A. He came in at 9:30, sir.

w.

Q. How was Mr. -- Mr. Ortega's demeanor on that date? A. Earlier, he was very angry, sir.

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Q. What did you observe -- don't tell me what he said -- in his demeanor? A. He was very angry that Michael hadn't been to rehearsal yet. Q. Do you know whether -- don't tell me -- just yes or no, whether a meeting occurred with Michael Jackson and anyone

A. Yes, sir.

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else that day?

Ms. Stebbins: Objection; lacks foundation. Her only foundation, your honor, for this is hearsay. We've had lengthy sidebars on this before. Mr. Putnam: This was a lengthy sidebar when she testified last time.

Ms. Stebbins: Originally, your honor, several weeks ago. We've gone far down this road before.

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Judge: How much more do you have on your examination? In other words, can we come back to this and you can finish what you have?

Mr. Panish: I can go to some other things, sure. I mean, I have three pages of questions. I've been sitting here for -can we do this on Monday, then? Judge: I don't want to bring her back.

Mr. Panish: I know, but it's kind of important. And I don't mean to do it, but I only got up here at 4:00 something. Let's go on to the other areas, finish them up, and maybe we can do a sidebar real quick. The witness: What time are we done?

ae

Judge: Let him finish.

Q. In the last two weeks of Michael's life, don't tell me what he said, did you observe whether he was scared?

ich

A. Yes.

Q. Did you observe whether he was paranoid?

mM

A. Yes.

Q. Did you observe whether he -- in your -- look to be pressured? A. Yes.

Q. Did you express -- strike that. Oh. The depositions. Did you have your deposition taken in another case where there were no representatives of Katherine Jackson, Blanket Jackson, Paris Jackson and Prince Jackson?

Te a

A. I don't -- okay. Were they there?

Q. No. Were any lawyers representing them present? A. During my deposition? No.

w.

Q. Okay. And Mr. Putnam was there questioning you. For how many days was he questioning you, Mr. Putnam? A. Five days.

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Q. Five days. And that was about 800 and some pages of questions where you were questioned by Mr. Putnam and a lawyer for Lloyd's of London, correct? A. That was my original subpoena, sir, yes.

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Q. Okay. And then when you were at that deposition, did Mr. Putnam then serve you with a subpoena to have a deposition in this case? A. Correct, sir.

Q. And the depositions, which they took from me, were about -- and I'm indicating a little less than a foot high, all the pages of the questions that Mr. Putnam was asking, correct? A correct, sir.

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Q and no one was there representing Katherine Jackson, Blanket Jackson, Prince Jackson or Paris Jackson, correct? A. No, sir. Ms. Stebbins: Asked and answered. Judge: Overruled. Mr. Panish: Now, you told me you're not a doctor.

Q. Is there any question in your mind that Michael Jackson was deteriorating when you saw him at the end of -- from June on?

ae

A. No. I was quite sure he was deteriorating, sir.

Q. And did you, in fact -- strike that. And you didn't know what was wrong, correct?

ich

A. Correct, I had no idea what was wrong.

Q. But you felt -- did you feel something was wrong or it was okay? A. It was very, very wrong.

A. Correct.

A. Yes.

Te a

Q. Those questions?

mM

Q. Okay. All right. Now I want to show you exhibit number -- I think it might be -- oh. While we're looking for that, do you remember the picture that was taken on June 19th, counsel asked you whether you were there or not there, and in the room or out of the room. 8-54. Thank you. Do you remember that?

Q. Okay. Is that how Michael Jackson looked on June 19th? A. Yes, sir.

w.

Q. Okay. And when you went to see him at the -- at the mortuary to assist the mortician, did you discuss with the mortician Michael Jackson's weight? A. Yes, sir.

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Q. Did he look worse than he looks in this picture that's in front of you? A. He was dead, sir. I mean, it's like, I'm sorry. That's like -- did he look worse?

A. But it's hard -- hard to say because his body went through so much. Q. All right. Okay. A. But it was -Q. All right.

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A. He wasn't any heavier than that.

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Q. I mean his physical body. I know he was -- he was not alive.

Q. And when those fan emails that Mr. Putnam was showing you -- specifically exhibit 12850 -- do you still have that in front of you? If we can put that up real quick? A. This one? Q. Yes. A. Okay.

A. Where are you? They made a jacket for him, sir. Q. There we go.

ae

Q. And let -- if we look here, if we go down, what you were being told here on June 20th, where it says "I told Michael to try it because he became really thin and we were afraid it wouldn't fit," do you remember what that's referring to?

Q. It's right in front of you.

mM

A. Okay.

ich

A. Where are you? Do I need to know where you are?

Q. When they say they wanted him to try something on, what were they referring to? A. They'd made a jacket for him.

Q. Okay. Can you read to us what the fan that sent you this email that you forwarded on told you about Michael's physical condition on June 20th?

Te a

A. "He took his jacket off and I saw something horrible. A skeleton. I watched his back. It was only bones. I am still in shock; and my best friend, too. He was so -- we knew he was skinny, but we were always seeing him with a jacket on or a large top. But as he was dressed this day, it was as if he was naked and we saw how awful it was." Q. And let's go down where it says "We don't know." That line here. This is what the fans were telling you, correct?

w.

A. Yes.

Q. Is this consistent with what you were concerned about?

ww

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Read the next paragraph. A. "We don't know if he is anorexic and stopped eating, as he has told us, or if it's something more complicated than

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that, a disease or something else." Q. Do you know whether these fans were medical doctors? A. I don't know, sir; but I don't think they were.

Q. Was this something that, in addition to everything you saw, concerned you severely about Michael's physical condition within a week of his death? A. Yes, sir. That's why I sent it on.

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Mr. Panish: All right. So now I think -- I'm on that last issue, your honor. Okay? And I know it's Friday at 4:31, and everybody is looking at me, but it is -Judge: We'll take a little bit of time. I want to get this done. Mr. Panish: I understand. Judge: Thank you.

Mr. Panish: Okay. So after you -- last time you were here, Mr. Putnam asked you some questions about certain things that occurred in the -- what day it was, and who said what.

ae

Q. Do you remember that? A. Correct.

ich

Q. Okay. And then you went back and, as you told him today, you found your old phone and you found text messages regarding certain events, correct? A. Correct.

A. Correct.

mM

Q. Okay. And you told us earlier about the circumstances in which the text messages were prepared. Don't tell me what's in them. And were those text messages contemporaneous of the events that you heard from Mr. Ortega? But don't tell me what he said.

Ms. Stebbins: Objection; vague as to "contemporaneous." Your honor, I think we're going to need that sidebar.

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Mr. Panish: I'm not getting into what was said yet. I'm just laying my foundation. Judge: Overruled.

Mr. Panish: Can I do that? Is that okay?

w.

Q. And when Mr. Ortega -- you told me that day, the 18th, was upset, what was your reaction -- strike that. Don't tell me what Mr. Ortega said; but did he make some statements in your presence that day, without telling me what he said? A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. And how did you feel when you heard the statements that he made? Don't tell us what he said. A. No. I'm just trying to go back to that time when I heard it to try to be accurate of my feelings. I was pretty -- I was pretty upset about it because it wasn't --

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Q. I don't want you to say what's there. A. No. Q. I'm going to get in trouble. A. It wasn't what I thought should happen. Q. Okay. Was it upsetting to you?

Q. And you got home at what time that night? A. 2:30, sir.

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A. Yes, sir, it was upsetting to me.

Q. And the minute you woke up, did you write a text reflecting exactly what Mr. Ortega had said? A. Yes, sir.

A. No, sir. Q. Were you still upset when you wrote the text? A. Yes, sir.

ae

Q. At that time, did you have any idea whether or not Mr. Jackson would be dead six days later?

ich

Q. At the time that you sent the text, did you have any idea that there was going to be this lawsuit? A. No, sir.

mM

Q. How was Michael's demeanor and psychological psyche on June 19th? Ms. Stebbins: Objection as to psychological psyche, your honor. This is a lay witness. Judge: Sustained.

Q. How would you describe Michael's emotional state on June 19?

Te a

A. June 19 or June 18?

Q. Let's go to June -- let's take June 18. A. Because the 18th was the day he came back to the -- at 9:30. Q. 9:30 at night?

w.

A. At night.

Q. And how was he doing there?

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A. He was pretty much -- I reported -- I think I said that before, that he was almost kind of catatonic. He was like so stoic, I think is the word that I used. Usually he's kind of happy and stuff, but he appeared to be scared to death. Q. And that's at 9:30 at night?

Mr. Panish: Okay. Your honor, so those are my questions on that issue. I know it's -Judge: Okay. So you need a sidebar? Mr. Panish: So we're at the point of sidebar.

Judge: You mean talk among yourselves? Ms. Chang: No. With you.

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Ms. Chang: Can we just huddle for a second and make a suggestion?

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A. When he came in.

Mr. Panish: We don't need the reporter. Just to make a -- I'm trying to speed this up. I'm sorry.

Judge: Let's try the huddle first. (Sidebar, not reported)

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Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, I don't mind a huddle, but we might need the reporter at some point.

Judge: Okay. Just a quick question to counsel. Are we done with the questioning?

Judge: Yes, of course. Mr. Panish: And reserving the right.

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Mr. Panish: Yes, subject to what we discussed.

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Judge: I get that. Okay. I'm going to let you go for today, but I do need to speak to alternate number 5 and alternate number 1. And I forgot what time we said we're coming back on Monday. I had a light calendar, so I think they said 9:30 on Monday. Okay? 9:30 on Monday. Thank you. Have a good weekend. Now, every Friday, do you remember my admonition? Don't discuss the case, don't read the news reports, don't listen to anything or read anything on the internet. Okay? Thank you. Have a good weekend. Alternate number 5 and alternate number 1, I need you to stay.

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(the following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors, except alternate jurors 1 and 5): Judge: Okay. What happened is my court assistant said that you were approached by someone who mentioned something to you about awarding money.

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Alternate juror number 5: Yes. Judge: A woman?

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Alternate juror number 5: Yes. Alternate juror number 1: A woman. Judge: I just wanted to inquire about that conversation. Somebody wearing red, a female wearing red? And so we need to

Mr. Panish: Yeah, probably. I think probably.

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talk about that. And -- okay. I don't know who wants to address it first. Alternate number 5? Should I question them separately?

Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, maybe we should not have all the press here for it? I don't know if it matters. Judge: I don't know if it should be done in that fashion.

Ms. Stebbins: I don't know who was doing the approaching, so I don't know what the issue is.

Mr. Putnam: Okay.

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Judge: No, I don't think it's the press. Actually, it's been described as a fan, actually.

Judge: Okay. I'm going to ask one of you to step out. Who wants to talk about it first? You're alternate number 5? Alternate juror number 1: No, I'm number 1.

Judge: Would you step in the jury room, number 5, I guess, and we'll call you when we're ready to talk about it? Alternate juror number 5: Okay.

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(alternate juror number 5 left the courtroom)

Judge: The attorneys are hearing about this for the first time, as well, so can you tell me what happened?

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Alternate juror number 1: Me and alternate 5 were standing by the water fountain. Judge: On this floor?

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Alternate juror number 1: On this floor. There was a woman that was standing with red pants, a light shirt, and a bandanna-looking thing, hair-holder thing. She was standing by the restrooms, by the escalators, and I noticed that she was standing there for a long time. It seemed to me like she was kind of like trying to listen to whatever she could hear. And -Judge: Listen to you, or just --

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Alternate juror number 1: She was just standing there. It just seemed kind of weird to me that she was just standing there as people were just going back and forth to the restrooms or whatever. Then she -- actually, I noticed her, and I told alternate number 5, I said, "do you see that girl there? I think she's trying to listen to whatever she can," or whatever. And when I said that, she walked in our direction and said, "I just want to say something. Are you guys jurors in the case?" and we're like -Judge: You have the juror badge on, right?

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Alternate juror number 1: And then she's, "well, I want to say something, and I just want to tell you --" she said -- she said, "I just wanted to tell you not to -- not to award them any money. Those people, don't award those people any money." and I told her, "ma'am, you should not be talking to us." she goes, "I know." and I said, "well then you need to stop talking." and she said, "yeah, but I want to tell you that you shouldn't be awarding those people. I know the truth." I said, "ma'am, seriously, you need to stop talking to us right now because you're going to end up getting in trouble." and she was just -- she was just standing there, she wasn't leaving. She -- she maybe attempted to say it again; and at that point, we both walked away towards the hallway where we line up to come inside. She was -- she continued to follow us, and she continued to say, you know, "i just want to say don't award those people any money." Judge: She was following you as you were walking?

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Alternate juror number 1: She kind of walked in the same direction we were walking. She walked toward the elevator, pushed the button like she was going to go in the elevator, but she did not go in the elevator, she just stood there. And I was telling her, "ma'am, I don't want to hear you. Go away. Go away. Thank you, bye," and that was it. And she actually eventually did walk -- walk towards the escalator and down. She went down. Judge: Have you seen her before? Alternate juror number 1: No, I never noticed her before.

Alternate juror number 1: I believe so. Judge: Is that person in the courtroom?

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Judge: First time you've ever seen this person?

Alternate juror number 1: Is there a person wearing red pants?

Judge: Do you see anybody in the courtroom that looks like that person? Mr. Boyle: Your honor, I actually -Mr. Panish: Don't say anything. Was anyone --

Judge: Okay. Mr. Panish: Can I ask something?

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Alternate juror number 1: I don't believe so.

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Judge: Wait a minute. I'm asking if he recognizes anybody in the courtroom that looks like that person.

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Mr. Putnam: Should someone step out and see if there's a person in red pants who is still here? Alternate juror number 1: I'm not sure if you observed. But he was walking by. Mr. Boyle: Yeah.

Mr. Panish: That was my question. Other than yourself and alternate number 5, did you see anyone else in the vicinity that might be able to identify the person?

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Alternate juror number 1: I'm sorry. I -Mr. Panish: Mr. Boyle?

Alternate juror number 1: I did see Mr. Boyle walk past us. I don't know if you were going that way or this way.

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Mr. Boyle: I was going down to get a gatorade, and I did see that interaction, because I saw you talking to somebody, and I was thinking I wonder if that's one of their wives or something. She was holding keys in her hands. I remember you guys talking to a woman.

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Alternate juror number 1: We were trying to discourage her from talking to us. Mr. Panish: Would you think if you saw her, you could identify her? Alternate juror number 1: Probably.

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Mr. Panish: Okay. Well, that's good. So if -- we'll just ask your honor if he sees her to immediately, you know, point it out to Veronica, and we can get that person. Because I didn't see it, I don't know -- when did this happen? Alternate juror number 1: Just before we came in from the last break. And I was looking for a deputy, and then Veronica wasn't out there, and I was like -- she went away. Mr. Panish: They're never there when you need them, right? I'm kidding.

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Mr. Putnam: I want to ask you a question, if I could, your honor. This is something we noted in the very beginning of the case that we were concerned with because of all the numbers of fans lining up with t-shirts and -Mr. Panish: I don't think we should be doing these discussions in front of the juror. Judge: Do you have any questions of -Mr. Putnam: No.

Judge: Okay. Okay. Well, let me ask you, does that have any impact on how you feel about the case? Alternate juror number 1: Absolutely not. Judge: About any issues in the case?

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Alternate juror number 1: No. I -- I thought her -- I noticed her because I see other fans standing closer, but I saw her separate. That's why I noticed her. No, no. As far as the interaction, I --

Alternate juror number 1: No. Judge: You can put it aside?

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Judge: And it won't influence you in making decisions in the case?

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Alternate juror number 1: Yeah, I can. Absolutely.

Judge: Does anybody want to ask him any questions? Mr. Panish: Thank you for bringing it to the court's attention. Mr. Putnam: Thank you very much.

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Judge: And we May ask you -- I agree, if you see this person, let us know right away. Alternate juror number 1: I will.

Judge: We May ask you at some point -- if we think we find the person, we May ask you to identify her.

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Alternate juror number 1: The next time I see her, I will let somebody know. Judge: All right. I'm going to let you go and we'll bring in --

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Alternate juror number 1: Do you need me to wait until he's done? Judge: No. But will you get the other juror and ask him to come in? Alternate juror number 1: Sure. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

(alternate juror number 1 left the courtroom) Judge: What I was going to say is maybe this person sits in the overflow room.

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Judge: Thank you. You, too.

Mr. Putnam: What I was noting, your honor, is we've been quite concerned about this just generally because they bring placards and t-shirts and stand up --

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(alternate juror number 5 entered the courtroom) Judge: Hello. Tell us what happened about this person who approached you.

Alternate juror number 5: Okay. It was after the break -- yeah, it was after the break. We were by where the -- like the payphone kind of things are. Judge: You mean you and alternate number 1?

Alternate juror number 5: Juror number 5: Yes, me and the other juror were by where the payphones are, little rooms with the pay phones. Judge: On this floor?

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Alternate juror number 5: Yes. And in front of the elevator area, there was that person who I had seen before over here by the benches. She just kept kind of staring and staring. I noticed she kept looking towards where we were at. And then she comes up and asks, "are you guys the jurors --" no. She says, "I know you guys are the jurors for the Michael Jackson." and I just looked at the floor, I didn't say anything. She goes, "well, I know you guys are; and I need to tell you guys something." so at that point, I just -- I started to walk away, like I didn't even address it, I just started to walk away. And she continued to talk at that point, the other juror addressed and said, "you're not supposed to be talking to us." I just continued to walk towards where we all went up in the corner right there, and noticed she continued talking, saying something about -- I heard the word "friends" and "court" -- or "friends" and "case." I overheard her say those two words. And she mentioned, "please don't give anyone any money." at that point, I just walked away and sat in the benches. I looked around for Veronica or anybody else, I didn't see anybody. And I guess she kind of got the hint at that point, because she went and stood in front of the elevators. And that was pretty much it. As soon as we saw Veronica, that's when we went and approached her and told her what happened. Judge: Okay. Do you see that person in the courtroom? Alternate juror number 5: No, I don't.

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Judge: Do you think you could recognize that person if that person was in the courtroom? Alternate juror number 5: I think I would. She was wearing red pants, light-skinned, thin. I want to say she had either a bow or a bandanna or something wrapped in her hair, but I don't think I see her. Judge: Okay. So if you see that person again, would you let us know?

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Alternate juror number 5: Yes, definitely. Judge: The other question I had is what you heard, is it possible for you to just disregard it?

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Alternate juror number 5: That's why I walked away. Like I said, other than those two words she said, "friends" and "case," or "friends in the case," something like that, I walked away, I paid no attention to it and walked away. It seemed like a fan, it's not somebody I had seen before. It didn't look like a reporter. Most of them carry something. She didn't have anything, so she -- I just disregarded her.

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Judge: So when I say put it out of your mind, I mean you won't let it affect any decisions in the case? Alternate juror number 5: No, not at all. Judge: None of the decisions in the case? Alternate juror number 5: No.

Alternate juror number 5: Not at all. Judge: Okay. Do the attorneys want to ask any questions?

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Judge: Won't affect you?

Mr. Panish: The person, would you say like -- was this -- what was the race of the person? Alternate juror number 5: Probably white. Mr. Panish: Caucasian? Alternate juror number 5: Probably Caucasian.

Alternate juror number 5: My age, perhaps.

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Mr. Panish: I can't tell what you are, either.

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Mr. Panish: How about the age? I know it's hard to tell. Ballpark?

Alternate juror number 5: Thank you. Mid 30's, maybe. She wasn't a young person, she wasn't really an elder person. Mr. Panish: So 30 to 40 would be your best estimate?

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Alternate juror number 5: Yeah, 30 to 40.

Mr. Panish: And how about the hair? White? Light? Dark? Alternate juror number 5: I couldn't tell you, with all honesty. But I do remember there being something in her hair like a bow or bandanna or something. But hair color, i'm sorry, I couldn't -- but I'd recognize her if I saw her facewise, I think.

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Ms. Stebbins: Did you say you'd seen her before? Alternate juror number 5: Today. Ms. Stebbins: Oh, just today?

Alternate juror number 5: Yeah, I had seen her when we broke for lunch, I had -- I noticed her standing outside.

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Mr. Panish: Was she sitting with anyone else? Alternate juror number 5: No, I think she was by herself. I don't remember anybody sitting next to her or talking to her.

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Judge: Any more questions? No. Okay. Thank you, sir. You May go home. Alternate juror number 5: Okay. And 9:30, you said, right?

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Judge: Yes. Have a good weekend. (alternate juror number 5 left the courtroom)

Judge: Actually, we can just ask Veronica if she had seen the person before. I haven't spoken to Veronica. Where is Veronica? Mr. Panish: She's probably with the jurors.

Judge: You'd never seen her before, first time? Mr. Boyle: Right. Ms. Stebbins: Did you see what she looked like?

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Mr. Boyle: Your honor, I saw her, as well. I saw -- I didn't know what was said, but I saw that interaction happen. It was just -- I happened to be walking by. So I'd never seen her before.

Mr. Boyle: Kind of like they described. I couldn't be that -- that -- but it was kind of a strange interaction, and I just saw that.

The courtroom assistant: I didn't see her. Judge: I mean, before as in any other day.

Mr. Panish: No foundation. Hearsay.

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The courtroom assistant: I didn't see today.

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Judge: Have you seen that person before, the person who was talking to the jurors? Was it the first time you've seen her?

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Judge: Do you think she may be in the other room, the overflow room, or something, maybe? The courtroom assistant: I tried calling the overflow room, but they didn't answer. Mr. Putnam: There must be some basis for her to say -- the second juror said that, "you're a juror in the case, aren't you?" so she must recognize him from something. Mr. Panish: Well, how about the badge? Mr. Putnam: That's true. That's true.

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Mr. Panish: That's normally -- that's why they wear the badges. Judge: Okay.

Mr. Panish: We've got Mr. Boyle of our group. If he sees her, he'll, you know, corral her and get the people on her.

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Judge: Okay. Is there anything else you think I should do at this point? Mr. Putnam: I want to think about it over the weekend. Because we're worried about there are lots of forms of communication, as you know, people wearing placards and signs and everything else.

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Judge: I understand the concern; and I discussed this, actually, with Judge Buckley. And the problem is that people have first amendment rights, and if they want to wear t-shirts and have signs, you know, there's -- there's -- I'm sure there's limits to it, but, you know, I -- t-shirts and things that are pretty innocuous, there's nothing I can do about that. I mean, if you have an idea, let me know.

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Mr. Putnam: I want to think about this because this takes it to another level, obviously.

Judge: Yes. If they're interfering with jurors, that's another story. But I think like t-shirts and signs, you know -Mr. Panish: That's jury tampering, so -Judge: Absolutely. Mr. Panish: That's clearly a felony in this state.

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Judge: That's a problem. Mr. Putnam: Yes.

Mr. Panish: So that person committed a felony; and, obviously, we need to get to the bottom of that. And, obviously, none of the parties want that to happen. Judge: No, no. I agree. That's a problem. But Mr. Putnam was raising issues about t-shirts and things like that. Mr. Panish: You can't do anything about that.

Mr. Putnam: The other thing I want to think about is just their own safety.

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Mr. Panish: Whose safety? Mr. Putnam: The jurors'.

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Mr. Panish: I don't think there's been any physical issues. Judge: Okay.

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Mr. Boyle: I think those two guys could have taken her, from my observation. Mr. Panish: They could have held their own, I think. Judge: Okay. So just what are we doing on Monday? Mr. Panish: That's a good question.

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Ms. Stebbins: Mr. Taj Jackson --

Mr. Panish: I don't know if he can come on Monday. Ms. Stebbins: Because he's interrupted halfway through.

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Mr. Panish: Yeah, he has been interrupted. So let me find -- I told him we had Tuesday. Let me find out. We only have three days next week, right? Judge: Yes.

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Mr. Panish: We're off on the 4th and 5th. All right. Judge: Well, I kind of wanted to know what -- you don't know? Mr. Panish: I know who's coming on Tuesday. I'm trying to get either --

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Judge: You don't know who's coming on Monday?

Mr. Panish: I'm trying to get Taj to come back; but if he can't, I'm going to have to get somebody else. Judge: You'll definitely let the defendants know, right? Mr. Panish: Of course.

Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.

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(court adjourned to Monday, July 1, 2013, at 9:30 am)

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Judge: Okay. See you at 9:30 on Monday.

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Exhibit 865 - 1

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